<p>About the HS itself? Why didn’t they let the universities know somehow? They are in a position to recommend kids to colleges. They knew about it. What did they write in the HSR?They are hurting everyone else at school if colleges decide their HSR is useless.</p>
<p>The one thing I really appreciated about the 60 minutes piece was their effort to expose how easy it is to cheat, how minor ETS thought cheating was, and how ETS did not feel that it is their responsibility to assure that the test is legitimate for all the students involved. Yes, Sam was a boring, cocky twit… who obviously did not spend much time on CC since he felt that his scores of 2100-2200 were exceptional, LOL. But the ETS spokes person was more apalling, IMHO. To state that they are not concerned about or think that the cheating is a problem, and that they stand by their decision not to inform colleges or institute sanctions for students proven to have cheated? I understand the exposure and possible cost if they did follow up on that. And I understand that proving cheating is not always easy. But if there are no real consequences, there is no incentive for compliance in this society. Sad but true. </p>
<p>The morals of not cheating begin at home. No doubt. But unfortunately, the morals taught in the home are not always to the same standard as community expectations. There have to be consequences in the community to support the standards that are required, regardless of the morals taught in the home.</p>
<p>If I were Boring Sam, I wouldn’t take the fall for my clients. Letting those students off the hook with no revelation of their identity or consequences for their actions sends a much louder message than simply prosecuting the test taker. That student may become your doctor or lawyer or president or football coach later on in life, having early on absorbed the lesson that the key to success is not getting caught.</p>
<p>I thought the “clients” were also arrested – just not featured on the 60 Minutes episode. Its likely their lawyers advised them not to participate; I think it was really dumb of this kid to give the interview he did.</p>
<p>I’ll bet you can find similar cheating rings in every state in the US…ETS admitted that last year they were aware of 150 incidents of cheating and it was clear from the 60 Minutes interview they aren’t looking too hard to find it. </p>
<p>I also predict that ETS will experience alot of negative fallout from their lax attitude about ensuring the credibility of their own test. If I were a college admissions officer I would rethink whether the SAT should continue to be mandatory for my school and once the bottomline is affected, ETS will wake up and become more proactive to protect credibility of scores. Of course by then too much damage may have been done to the “brand”.</p>
<p>I don’t think the most important issue is what Sam thinks is a good score, or whether he is boring. </p>
<p>For me the story is about the amount of cheating that might be going on, the feeling that this might be the tip of the iceberg regarding the amounts of cheating that goes undetected or might be swept under the rug. The story is about how some students can cheat and get away with it. Those students that Sam took SATs for were accepted with scores earned by someone else, were admitted to colleges, and perhaps received merit aid/FA packages based upon their scores. The story is about the unknown numbers of students who played by the rules and were not accepted to a school because of cheaters, or could not attend because they did not get enough money that might have gone to dishonest students.</p>
<p>The cheaters were caught first. To save their own necks, they coughed up Sam E’s name. </p>
<p>Second, GN H.S. forced the cheaters it caught who were still in high school to cancel their SAT scores and retake the SAT. It turned the name of the cheaters into the prosecutor’s office. Sam was over 18; many of the students for whom he took the test were minors. That’s why they weren’t named.</p>
<p>I think it’s five other students who have been arrested for doing this too. One got a score between 1500-1600. I suspect he took it for an athlete who just needed average scores. </p>
<p>I agree with others who thought the CB spokesperson was appalling.</p>
<p>jonri, so then, did any students get into colleges using scores on exams that Sam took?</p>
<p>Yes, some of the students involved had already graduated and were in college. Some can’t be prosecuted because the 2 year statute of limitations had run by the time they were caught.</p>
<p>And, not all of the students Sam E took the test for attended GN H.S.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why these students are being allowed to stay at the schools that they currently attend. Is it because their cheating can’t be proven?</p>
<p>One thing that annoyed me about the cheater on 60 Minutes was his stubborn inability or unwillingness to understand/admit that the kids he helped get in to colleges by cheating were taking the places that should have gone to honest kids. His theory was that he was helping his clients and hurting no one.</p>
<p>courer, I agree, but to me, that is not the main storyline. For me, the bigger story is about how easy it was to cheat, how much cheating might really be going on, and how students who are not honest are benefiting, and faceless/nameless honest students miss a big opportunity because of dishonest students.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>I will add a different “main” storyline. </p>
<p>Despite the reporting actions by the schools involved, the reality is that if falls incredibly short of what should have been done. Forcing the caught students to cancel and retake the SAT means little to nothing. The students should have been suspended. It is also very doubtful that the academic dishonesty and attempt to rig the admission process was reported in full to every school the students applied to. This case was an opportunity to make sure students would understand that there are consequences. </p>
<p>As far as the College Board, they should have seized this opportunity to cancel ALL scores from those students forever. Attempts to cheat on one of the TCB tests should make this person unable to report ANY scores for a large period of time. The culpability of the College Board started well before this story of organized cheating. The mere fact that this organization has abdicated the testing process to an woefully poorly equipped and unmotivated high school staff is the first part of the problem. At best, those people are lethargic in attempts to ferret out cheating. At its worst, they do NOT mind higher scores from their students and are not above bending the rules. </p>
<p>Of course, the main storyline should be about the absence of morality and integrity that has been fostered among our most naive and vulnerable. Children do not grow with the desire to cheat their way through school. This is brought by the expectations of “excellence” from parents and, at times, educators. Researchers have pointed out that the past saw cheating among students who were struggling to stay afloat. Now the bulk of the cheating is done with the “superstars” and the students who are pushed to use their academic prowess as a springboard to a more “elite” future. </p>
<p>The worse of all is that “people in the know” DO know where the cheating takes place, know the type of parents who contribute to the malaise, know the cultures that condone success at all costs, and know how the cheating is happening. </p>
<p>It is just easier to look the other way and hope the scandals won’t see the light of the day. This is true in an academic environment, and especially true when it comes to students from a SES percentile or students who typically do well. </p>
<p>The younger might not fully understand the differences between right or wrong, and not fully understand the full impact of their actions. The adults, however, have few excuses!</p>
<p>xiggi,</p>
<p>Great Neck North DID suspend the cheaters. It also barred any of them from going to prom. It forced them to cancel their scores and retake the SAT. It notified the CB and requested an investigation. It reported its findings to the DA. (At least this is what the New York Times, NBC News, and Newsday have reported. I have no inside knowledge.) </p>
<p>We don’t know what, if anything, it told the colleges involved.It is my understanding that making that information public WOULD violate privacy laws AND the deals worked out with the DA. Don’t blame GN HS.</p>
<p>To me, it’s interesting that colleges KNOWN to be involved, e.g., Tulane and the U of Colorado, haven’t said a thing. So, why not dump on them, rather than GN High? </p>
<p>The stories are pretty inconsistent about how all this started. I personally believe the version in which one kid at GN High told a GC what was going on. (If that’s true, I’m sure protecting the identity of this student was a high priority.) Other versions just say that teachers “got wind” of the cheating. </p>
<p>GN HS then went through the records, looking for discrepancies between GPA and SAT scores. It then noted that in most, not all, cases, the kids involved had taken the test scores at other high schools, despite the fact that GN HS was a test site and it hadn’t been filled. It reported this finding to the CB and ASKED for an investigation. </p>
<p>You have to write an essay when you take the test. The CB reported that handwriting analysis established that all 11 essays had been written by the same person. The school then confronted the cheaters and asked them who had taken the test for them. At least some coughed up Sam E’s name.</p>
<p>Some of those students—and some of their parents and attorneys—claim that the kids were told that if they co-operated, the info would go no further. They are arguing that reporting the info to the DA was a breach of the agreements the high school made with the kids. The high school is adamant that it made no such promise.</p>
<p>I think I’ve made it apparent that I think the people involved should be punished. I think it’s really unfair to knock GN High though. Personally, I give it kudos for requesting an investigation by the CB and reporting this to the DA.</p>
<p>
Not just GN. Every single school that administers the test is being affected because apparently they “let” this occur. All the guidance counselors of the schools which administer the tests have been talking, noticed a trend, and heard murmurings from colleges that apparently that is the reason. So this year, the acceptances on LI for test-administering schools have basically been just legacy kids. Kids who easily would’ve gotten into schools last year were all rejected all over LI. And the schools who don’t administer the test got in like 3+ kids to every Ivy, which is how the trend was noticed. Schools from Northeastern and similar tier schools all the way up to the Ivies seem to be punishing us. Schools that last year accepted 10+ kids early from our school rejected or deferred everyone this year. It sucks, especially because most of us are honest kids. :(</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Don’t you think that the suspension and the reason of the suspension HAD to be reported to colleges as part of the application process. If an administrative loophole existed, the school should have made sure that the GC contacted all colleges that requested an official transcript. If the cheating was discovered after the GC reports had been sent, the GC should have contacted each school to report the violations. Since some of the actions seemed to have barred the student to attend the prom or retake the SAT, there should have been opportunities to disclose this through the updated HS reports of final grades. </p>
<p>Perhaps it was done, but this action has not been reported, AFAIK. I am not sure why would anyone support a lacking or partial disclosure of the violations. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Read my post again and you will see that I was not knocking ONE particular high school. And while doing “something” might deserve kudos, this only looks good in comparison to the schools and colleges that did not think this story needed much action or introspection.</p>
<p>Again, this case offered the opportunity to send a strong message about the consequences of organizing rings of cheaters. A strong message entails more than a slap on the wrists of the “purchasers.”</p>
<p>I havent read every comment, but I would like to suggest tha the CB note if a test was taken at a school other than the student’s home school.</p>
<p>I would also like to disagree with xiggi’s post that this is about cheating by “super stars.” Did you listen to the 60 minutes interview? According to Sam E., his clients were kids with horrible gpa’s who couldn’t have gotten high-ish scores on the SAT “no matter how much they studied.” </p>
<p>I wish people would stop saying this is about parents pressuring their kids to excel and get into elite schools. So far, the known college destinations for those who paid are U of Colorado and Tulane (x2). Sam E went to/attends UMichigan and Emory. The other alleged test takers whose colleges are known attend Indiana U., SUNY Stony Brook, and Tulane. </p>
<p>The kind of scores Sam E got are high in the national pool, but are highly unlikely to get a white or Asian kid from Great Neck or a similar high school into a tippy top school. </p>
<p>I don’t know if what borntodance is saying is true, but if it is, maybe the colleges in question are deferring until they can get info as to whether any of the scores submitted this year are suspect.</p>
<p>I don’t think that going to a test center other than one’s own school should be held against a student. I know that many high schools do not offer to proctor the SAT for each date it is available. Some may not offer to proctor both the SAT and ACT. There are so many reasons as to why students take the exams outside of the high schools they attend.</p>
<p>RE #156–Doesn’t this happen a lot? My kids’ school wasn’t even a test site. S1 took it 4 times; at 3 different sites. This was due to it being given at different sites on different test dates and/or his scheduling. Every one of his tests would have been at a school other than home school. Small schools will never be a test site. Everyone of their students’ results would be flagged. I think it’s too common an occurrence to be meaningful info.</p>
<p>srystress, this was our experience as well.</p>