SAT cheating scandal in LI: "new lease on life"

mommusic · January 2, 2012, 1:42pm

To anyone wondering where the kids got the big bucks to pay Sam: GN is a wealthy area. Kids could ask their parents for $800 to “fix the AC” on the BMW–with said AC not really being broken. For instance.

NYMomof2 · January 2, 2012, 1:43pm

coureur, I couldn’t agree more. For someone who scored a perfect 800 on the math section, Sam certainly has a lot of trouble with simple arithmetic. He could not seem to admit the certainty that if he helps Student A get into a school he would otherwise have had no chance to attend, a Student B somewhere, who would otherwise have been offered that place, was rejected. Admission to a particular college is a zero-sum game.

I watched the segment online, and the CB representative was repulsive. The interviewer looked like she was about to lose her lunch at several points in the interviews with him and with Sam.

vlines · January 2, 2012, 1:47pm

Sryrsytressd- my son too. Took ACT at 2 different schools, one I had to drive him to because he had no idea where it was, and was the closest to us. And 3 different schools for the SAT. All were local, but he did not attend any of them. He knew some students that went to each testing site, but none of the proctors. We did wonder about those that went to testing facilities much farther away than the rest of the students. Especially when one said the reason was because the testing site was full. He scheduled his testing before a number of other students that did not have a problem getting into the closer testing site.

xiggi · January 2, 2012, 1:51pm

Jonri, did I write that THIS case was about super stars? I used quotation marks.

rushedmom · January 2, 2012, 1:51pm

“I don’t understand why these students are being allowed to stay at the schools that they currently attend. Is it because their cheating can’t be proven?”

I have to wonder about this as well. It seems odd to me that the only one arrested in this case is the test taker… He was hired by these kids to impersonate them… I also think alot of these kids parents had to know and helped arrange for his services… I mean how many kids really have access to $1500 +

jonri · January 2, 2012, 2:01pm

Please read the stories. The kids who hired Sam were also arrested IF they took the test within the past 2 years. 2 years is the statute of limitations and the kids who hired Sam more than 2 years before the scheme was uncovered cannot be pursued legally. Some of these kids are now in college.

The kids who hired Sam E --and allegedly 4 other test takers thus far-- within the last 2 years were minors when they hired others to take the test for them. While the local news crews showed up to film their arrests, their names can’t be publicly released. They were prosecuted/ are being prosecuted as juveniles. In NY State, the names of juveniles charged with misdemeanors are not released.

Reportedly, some of the kids who took the test within the past 2 years and plead guilty got deals which prohibit the DA from informing their colleges.

Four more alleged test-takers have been arrested and identified. They were over 18 when they allegedly took the tests for others.

vlines · January 2, 2012, 2:10pm

^^^And ETS/college boards policy/procedure is just to cancel the scores. They do not notify the colleges or HS’s that they already submitted the scores to that there was a cheating incident.

And if the seniors were already admitted to college, and an update was not required by the college that included instances of academic dishonesty/suspensions, then the college would never know about the cheating.

That is one of the reasons this is so messed up…

xiggi · January 2, 2012, 2:21pm

That is utter BS. The DA is not the one with the obligation to disclose this type of information to the colleges. Nor should the DA have the ability to impose a non-disclosure “deal” onto the school.

Applications usually contain this type of questions:

For the applicant:

For the guidance / college counselor who is completing the Secondary School Report (SSR) :

jonri · January 2, 2012, 2:33pm

xiggi,

At the time the students applied to college, the answer to all of the questions you quote was a NO.

For the kids who were already in college, as far as I can see, the GC’s answer is still NO. They were not not disciplined in high school. They were not convicted of any crime while in high school. Assuming that there’s some duty to update after the kid has matriculated at a college-and, as far as I know, there isn’t-then again,as far as I know, the GN HS DOES NOT KNOW which students accepted plea deals and which are still fighting the charges.

There’s been no report that GN HS had any knowledge of the alleged four other test takers for hire that the DA has charged and/or who their clients were. So, if these are the kids who got deals from the DA, there is no reason to think the HS was aware of them.

For kids who hired people to take the tests for them more than 2 years ago, the answer to all of the questions based on this incident will always be a NO.

It’s CB’s idiotic policy, not GN HS, which is the cause of this mess.

kayf · January 2, 2012, 2:46pm

CB has taken no responsiblity to prevent cheating. It seems they are more concerned about getting fees to pay their salaries. They could implement digitial camera pix for any out of school kids at a site. There is a lot of stuff they could do which would not cost a lot. And dont even get me started on the documented incidents of tests being stolen from overseas and sent back to the US

mini · January 2, 2012, 2:46pm

“Reportedly, some of the kids who took the test within the past 2 years and plead guilty got deals which prohibit the DA from informing their colleges.”

“And if the seniors were already admitted to college, and an update was not required by the college that included instances of academic dishonesty/suspensions, then the college would never know about the cheating.”

The CollegeBoard isn’t complaining. The colleges aren’t complaining. There is theory, but not a shred of actual evidence, that some of the kids may have been helped in gaining admission by a somewhat higher SAT score, though no college is talking.

And any time the CollegeBoard invalidates a score, they make more money, 'cause the kids take it again.

HImom · January 2, 2012, 2:46pm

My kids have had to take tests at centers other than the schools they attend for various reasons. When they took it in middle school, the middle school did NOT offer the tests. When they took the tests in HS, if they didn’t register early space was filled or their HS wasn’t offering the test for that date, etc. then they took the test elsewhere.

They DO need to have the proctor take a closer look at the ID of the kid taking the test, ESPECIALLY if the kid is from a different school and not personally knwo to the proctor. They also need to be stricter about breaks and other irregularities during tests. Agree that taking a photo of the kid taking the test would help.

There also have to be consequences when it is determined that a student was admitted to a U through fraud like this, even if the S/L has expired, the U should be able to deny the student the ability to continue attending their U and obtain a degree if admission was via fraud.

xiggi · January 2, 2012, 2:51pm

Nope, that is not correct. It could only be NO if you want to play extreme games of words or … LIE.

In your prior posts, you reported that the school DID suspend the students, did preclude them to attend the prom, and did force them to retake the SAT. All those actions indicate that the suspension was contemporary to the application process. It is obvious that the school had an obligation to release accurate SSR.

The answer to the question below is about the existence of a SUSPENSION. If the school considered the offenses worthy of a suspension, there is no reason to apply a different analysis for the SSR.

“Has the applicant ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at your school from 9th grade (or the international equivalent) forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in the applicant’s probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from your institution?”

This is not a question that leads to a Clintonesque definition of a word. And, fwiw, there was any doubt, the school, considering the gravity of the offenses, should err on the side of full disclosure and not play games.

jonri · January 2, 2012, 3:08pm

xiggi,

We are talking about several different groups of students. Some of those who were students at GN HS when this happened were disciplined while in high school. I agree with you that the high school had an obligation to tell any colleges about this suspension. AFAIK, there is no reason to think it didn’t.

But many of those who are alleged to have hired test takers were already in college. Some of those have reportedly entered into plea agreements which prohibit the DA from telling their colleges about their plea. Others may be fighting the charges. Nobody really knows because they were charged as juvenile offenders and those records are sealed in NY State.

Others are getting away scot free because they allegedly hired the test takers more than 2 years ago and the statute of limitations has run.

See, e.g., <a href=“13 More Arrested in SAT Cheating Scandal – NBC New York”>13 More Arrested in SAT Cheating Scandal – NBC New York;

<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57329627/more-students-implicated-in-sat-cheating-scandal/[/url]”>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57329627/more-students-implicated-in-sat-cheating-scandal/</a>

Shrinkrap · January 2, 2012, 3:27pm

To those of you who feel the same thing goes on everywhere; is there any evidence to support that? Call me naive ( it won’t be the first time), but CC was SUCH an eye opener for me. When my 2008 high schooler was a junior, my H suggested she take an SAT class, and suggested she take the test again (she took it once, which is what her school suggested).

Taking a class, and taking the test again was so crazy to me. I did a google search, and found CC. On CC I have learned about a very different world. Not saying it’s good or bad, but I can’t help wonder if some communities, or at least some PARTS of communities, are different from others.

northeastmom · January 2, 2012, 3:35pm

shrinkrap, I assume you live in California. You might find this interesting reading:

[the</a> santa barbara news network](<a href=“http://www.thesbnn.com/?p=28957]the”>http://www.thesbnn.com/?p=28957)

momofthreeboys · January 2, 2012, 3:36pm

You can’t have kids take the test at their high school unless you make that happen only in the NE. Our nearest test center is an hour drive…it’s just not a common test in our region.

The CB spokesperson was awful. I didn’t catch who he was but OMG. He came across as woefully weak and made very few strong position soundbites. What I heard was everything is fine and we don’t think anything is statistically wrong. Never once did he say with any conviction that they take this instance seriously and the integrity of their test seriously. I hope CB’s PR team is cringing.

CB can make students produce two pieces of ID, but after that the absolute best position they could take is to report cheaters to the colleges. The absolutely best position they could take and the absolute best deterrent. If I were the ACT organization I would institute the two pieces of ID immediately as well as reporting cheaters as it would be a very good marketing position in terms of bolstering the integrity of THEIR test.

HImom · January 2, 2012, 3:39pm

I really don’t think this problem is all that widespread, at least not in HI where pretty much everyone knows everyone. Mileage does of course vary widely. I do know one kid who was told he needed to get his scores to increase by 100 points to be competitive for the U he wanted to attend. He retested & his score went up exactly 100 points, to his parents shock. :)

xiggi · January 2, 2012, 3:41pm

Jonri, I understand that there were different groups of students. None of us will ever know all the finer details of what was uncovered and what was disclosed. Fwiw, my posts were more of philosophical nature, and in answer to posts about what were the main story lines.

My position is that the lack of real consequences to the perpretators will never represent much of a deterrent for future similar cases. As I mentioned, the prohibition by TCB to take further tests, as well as a permanent flag to the accounts of blatant cheaters, might help. After all, if this is a matter between TCB and the schools who “control” that organization, why could we not expect those “related” parties to have to deal with the attempts to cheat through such egregious behavior? This was not about peeking at your neighbor or writing a formula on your palm.

How successful could an applicant be after being flagged? That would be entirely at the discretion of the colleges. But they should be able to rely on full and truthful applications, and not the sanitized versions that result from “deals” or cover-up decisions.

Shrinkrap · January 2, 2012, 3:50pm

Northeast mom, I guess that was interesting, but I STILL think communities differ with regard to what is the “norm” for high school graduates. In my community, even at my kids so-called-private school, the norm is community college. The GC at my kids school, told them take the tests only once, and go to a cc for two years, then transfer to a UC to save money. Christian school; perhaps a sin to do otherwise. Even though that GC only lasted one year ( then we went a year or so without ), that actually seems to be the norm around here. SATs not even necessary , although at my kids school they take them every year.

For the people I socialize with, increasing the high school graduation rate is the goal, and if they apply to college, praise the Lord! We have a special ceremony to honor them!

It makes me wonder if it is truly the same everywhere.

SAT cheating scandal in LI: "new lease on life"

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