However, two year courses (e.g. two year IB HL courses, or AP physics 1 + AP physics 2) may not cover all of the topics of the SAT subject test after just the first year. They may go much deeper than one year regular high school courses in the topics that they do cover, though.
So a student taking a two year course in 11th and 12th grades may find that s/he is not optimally prepared for the SAT subject test at the end of 11th grade, unless s/he previously had a one year regular high school course in the subject (but then s/he could have taken the SAT subject test at the end of that course).
It’s not a question of may not; it absolutely does not.
Which may as much a function of the maturity of the 8th grader as the preparation received. In any case, AP is not needed for the Subject Test, although some students may feels more comfortable with the additional preparation. However, depending upon the school and/or the teacher, there is no guarantee that either course will adequately prepare the students.
Whether this makes sense depends on the subjects the student is taking. For example, if the student wants to take a Subject Test in a foreign language and will be continuing the study of that language in grade 11, it makes sense to wait a year longer before taking that Subject Test.
My son did exceptionally well in 10th grade honors biology. He asked his guidance counselor whether it would be a good idea to take the Biology Subject Test at the end of the year. The counselor said “no way” on the grounds that he would be competing with people who had completed AP Biology and therefore had two years of preparation instead of one.
^But again it might depend. I know our AP Bio classes were very good about covering the entire curriculum (which many complain is far too broad BTW). My kid also had been doing ecology as an event in Science Olympiad. (He did not attempt to take the bio subject test in 8th grade as he did not have as nearly as good a teacher as his older brother - who also didn’t take it because he knew he’d wait for the physics test.
@Marian, and my daughter’s friend scored in the 700’s with no preparation as a 9th grader after honors bio. I’m sure she could have gotten an 800 if she had studied a bit. Not everyone taking the test has taken AP.
My son took Bio subject test after 9th grade honors Bio and scored a 790. He completed the practice test in the CB book, figured out which content areas he had not learned in class, then studied up on them a bit the two weekends before the test. However, he did not consider taking the Chem subject test after completing Honors Chem in 10th grade as the curriculum did not match up well with the Subject Test. I don’t know if this is just the case in our HS or in many schools, but we have very few students sitting for Chem subject test until after completion of AP Chem, whereas a fair number sit for Bio subject test after only completing Honors Bio.
I think an important theme of this thread is that experiences differ greatly from one student to another and one school system to another.
Some high school courses provide excellent preparation for SAT Subject Tests. Others don’t. Sometimes it’s worthwhile to postpone a Subject Test until you have taken the AP class in that subject; other times, it’s not necessary. Honors chemistry in one school system can differ greatly from honors chemistry in another school system. Etc.
One question: Some people here have talked about students taking Subject Tests after completing a high school level course in 8th grade. Will colleges even accept scores from tests taken that early?
Well, one reason to recommend after the AP is because that’s a standardized curriculum, so if the school has covered it at all reasonably we know what’s been covered. There are sample tests in the book the College Board puts out and quite a lot of stuff on their site on line was well. So it’s easy enough to figure out if you’ve got the material covered.
There was one story recently that Caltech did not want to see 8th grade scores, but unlike the regular SATs I don’t think subject test scores get repressed.
DS took the chemistry SAT2 at the end of 10th grade, when he was taking honors chem. He did not have the chance to take AP chem until 12th grade (this year), so he studied the material that hadn’t been covered on his own and got a 760.
However, be careful of physics, where it is common for high schools to split the AP course over two years. A student who has only completed one part of AP physics (and has not taken a regular high school physics course before) would only be prepared for a portion of the SAT subject test in physics.
As I shared up thread, my son was able to use his eighth-grade physics score for every school to which he applied, including several Ivy Leagues, except for Caltech. It seems they have changed their policy, as I do not find anything about the necessity of using recent scores on their website today. I would imagine he could have used his eighth-grade math II score, as well, if he had not chosen to retake it in 10th grade.
Carnegie Mellon’s website used to say that Subject Tests should be taken junior or senior year. I emailed them to check, because my son took Math II and Physics in June of his freshman year after taking AP Physics B and Precalculus. They emailed back, “We will accept standardized test scores from your sophomore/freshman year; you do not need to worry. Your son’s current plans for taking tests will work fine for our admissions process. We just prefer scores from junior or senior years.”
I checked and their website now says this regarding SAT/ACT and SAT Subject Tests, “Carnegie Mellon would prefer that applicants take these required tests in their junior or senior year. Test results from the junior and senior year are the best indicators of a student’s current ability and potential for immediate success at Carnegie Mellon.”
I’ve considered having him take more than those two. He could probably have taken the Chemistry subject test last year after AP Chem. This year, I suppose he could consider taking US history or biology after the APs in those. I’ve looked briefly at some sample Literature questions, and he could probably do well at that one now. I don’t suppose there’s much point to all that, though. He won’t take any more unless he takes the practice test and gets a high score on that.
I’m pretty sure the regular non-AP classes at our HS would not work at all as prep for the SAT Subject Tests. They are not required as prerequisites for the AP science classes. There aren’t any honors classes between regular and AP.
I know at least one person on this site was able to petition Carnegie Mellon to use an AP Score when they realized too late they were supposed to have subject tests. But it’s definitely better just to jump through the hoops they ask you to.
I wouldn’t take the subject tests in any old subject, make sure they make sense with potential future plans like Math2 and physics or chem for your son. My kids are also grade advanced in math and they did need to review Geometry a bit before taking the Math2 because it was so long ago and not skills that are built on or used in other subjects like basic algebra. We are lucky that our school offers a dual enrollment option for Multi Var and Matrix Algebra through a 4 year college so MIT has accepted the transfer credits from previous students but they rarely accept them from 2 year colleges. The Physics SAT2 does not sync up with the AP curriculum. There were 3 units that were not covered in AP Physics 1 on the SAT2 and there may be 1 more unit for kids from other schools as our school did one extra unit after the AP test. For a kid who is gifted in math and physics it’s an easy few hours of self study though. My son took AP Stats as an elective and thought it was one of the least interesting and challenging AP classes. No homework and he easily got a 5 without studying. Not going to impress schools who know what real upper level math looks like. If you don’t have any resources for more math I would make sure he does everything he can to self study and be prepared to find ways to work that into his applications.
@Ynotgo – Either the Bio subject test is relatively easy or it aligns well with the 9th grade honors bio curriculum at our HS. My son, and several of his classmates, took the Bio subject test after 9th grade bio and scored well. Very few attempt the Chem subject test after completion of 10th grade honors Chem but instead wait to take AP Chem the following year, and take subject test at completion of the AP course. This may just be specific to our HS curriculum as I have never even looked at the content of the exam, or our courses.
Having said all that, IIRC, your son is interested in coding and CMU specifies with science subject test they require for each college, and Chem & Physics are listed more often than Bio, so your son is probably all set with his 9th grade Physics scores.
Thanks @CT1417. Yes, he’s specifically interested in majoring in physics with CS as a possible minor/double major, so we think the Physics and Math II tests should be fine. The websites of a few for-pay college consultants say that more is better for subject tests. I’ve not become convinced of that except in the special case of homeschoolers, which is not us.
For the OP’s mathy 9th grader, I wanted to agree with the other posters who strongly suggested finding a way for him to take math (not just AP stats) somehow from 10th-12th. Stepping away from math would not be good for a STEM kid, and I wouldn’t suppose the a kid like that would like not learning math, whether it is transferable or not. My son took Calc BC in 10th, so we only have 2 years to cover, not three. We are figuring things out semester by semester based on community college schedules. Currently, he’s taking Discrete Math, which is a math course commonly offered in CS departments.
I know you said your son had a negative experience with an online class. My son also prefers in-person classes to online classes, because he knows he had trouble committing the time if the schedule is too flexible. He did do 3 programming classes though AoPS, and kept up with those. But, he ended up deciding he preferred their Precalc book to the class (partly because he had schedule conflicts that wouldn’t let him be in the class real-time). Anyway, there are a lot of different delivery models for online classes, and one might work better that the other. My son may have to take online classes if the community college doesn’t go back to offering late-afternoon or evening post-calculus classes.
Forgive me if this sounds wicked stupid, but if you’ve got a kid taking an AP course (and presumably, the AP test at the end of it), why do they need to take the subject test as well? For instance, if I tell my junior who is in IB bio HL right now that she needs to take the IB test, the AP test, and the SAT subject test, she’s going to think I’m nuts.
It seems nuts! Is there any rational reason you need to get the grade in the class, then take three additional standardized tests to let a school know you’re capable in the subject?
ETA; nevermind-I clicked on the link a pp posted and realized it’s required for certain colleges.
Le sigh, looks like she’ll be taking the subject SATs if they’re on her list.