<p>So if you’re drunk you no longer have any rights?</p>
<p>she has her right to “privacy,” regardless. But I think the court made a correct verdict. Say the everyone else, including the boys, were drunk;you wouldn’t know what could’ve happened that night.</p>
<p>Dirslam – Not that I agree with anything you say, but how do justify the boy(s) passing around pictures days later when sober?</p>
<p>07DAD – I assume even you would think taking advantage of a girl so drunk she had to be carried to her room would be illegal and morally wrong. I do not disagree with defensive living - but that would not have been necessary to stop what happened here.</p>
<p>dirkslam41 is, not surprisingly, a high school student. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Dirk, do yourself a BIG favor: learn that being drunk does not constitute consent to sexual activity, whether male OR female. The boys ADMITTED that they did those things to her without her consent. </p>
<p>Also learn that taking pictures of anyone’s private parts, including your own, and even if they consent–which she did not–is a BAD idea, and showing or disseminating those pictures is a WORSE idea.</p>
<p>You are in for a world of hurt if you don’t get some things straight.</p>
<p>Dirk, in all seriousness, you might want to discuss this with your parents. BTW, one of these boys was headed for an IVY. Now his parents are at best fighting to keep him out of an alternative HS.</p>
<p>God, an IVY??? (what the heck does that have to do with anything?)</p>
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<p>I assume even you, kayf, know that 07DAD understands this to be morally wrong (and illegal) as he has never once in this thread suggested otherwise. Nor has anyone else in this thread, except for our new participant, dirkslam41, who has received good advice from you and Consolation. </p>
<p>As things tend to do on this site, the conversation on this thread has evolved. Please, however, let us not assume that others who wish to discuss questions of law or pose provocative questions do not understand that the behavior of those boys was contemptible. I would have a hard time engaging in civil discussion with someone who wasn’t starting from that position.</p>
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<p>Oh, Pizzagirl. Don’t go changing. Stay as cute and sweet as you are. You know that no discussion on this site is complete without an Ivy-related reference! ;)</p>
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<p>Dirk, you seem to be assuming that the boys had the right to do anything they wanted to unless she clearly told them “no.”</p>
<p>In fact, they don’t have the right to do anything to her unless she clearly says “yes” and is competent to make a decision.</p>
<p>I’m concerned about your misconceptions. You might get in trouble in your own life because you don’t seem to understand the current legal views on consent.</p>
<p>Poet, my point is that even without a serious criminal sentence, the consequences can be severe, and DONT DO IT. That is all I meant.</p>
<p>Abs, my point is that 07DAD seems to meld (in nicer words that Dirk) that kids should not get drunk and do stupid things. He seems to includee in his advice to his sons to live defensively that no means no. That is not defensive living. Defensive living is protecting yourself against stupid things that others do. Defensive living does not mean not doing stupid things yourself.</p>
<p>kayf: I am not quibbling with the distinction you make between defensive living and doing the right thing. I see your point. What I am questioning is the hostile tone toward 07DAD. Perhaps this is unconscious and unintentional. I know 07DAD can defend himself if he wants to. I just find your tone to be off-putting. Reasonable people can disagree on lots of things. It is possible to disagree without outright (or indirectly) casting aspersions on someone’s character.</p>
<p>ABS, reasonable people can disagree. If someone does not distinguish between defensive living and doing the right/moral/legal thing I do find them lacking in character. If you find that off-putting so be it. Maybe IRL 07DAD does see a difference, but he keeps combing the two (not just in that post, but in many) in a way that does not distinguish the two. I find that offensive.</p>
<p>Well, kayf, now at least you’ve made it plain that your tone is, in fact, intentional. I do not consider myself the final word on “character” and I don’t consider myself to be above reproach, IRL or online, so I try not to throw stones at people.</p>
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LasMa, your post didn’t answer this question. I think your answer suggests–although I don’t want to put words in your mouth–that this question shouldn’t be asked. I have trouble with this. It seems to me that the evidence shows that what a female student wears to a frat party at least has an impact on how the boys at the party will behave toward her, and they may make assumptions about her attitudes that are inaccurate. Is that risk? Well, maybe it’s only a risk of being “hit on” and being the recipient of unwanted comments and attention. And maybe that’s not enough risk for women to take into account in deciding what to wear. But is there really evidence that it doesn’t increase their risk of assault in that situation? Especially in combination with alcohol? I think this whole issue is one in which folks have a very hard time separating the way things should be from how they actually are.</p>
<p>Hunt, you can frame the question how you want. Others want to frame it in terms of what beheivor is moral or legal.</p>
<p>I believe in asking hard questions. Others can choose if they’d like to answer them.</p>
<p>Hunt, you may THINK you are asking hard questions. Others may think you are trying to find excuses for the boys behaviors.</p>
<p>Today is the day the case goes back to court for official sentencing, and Savannah gets to have her say. I hope her molesters get more than the ridiculous community service sentence and do some actual jail time.</p>
<p>“Well, maybe it’s only a risk of being “hit on” and being the recipient of unwanted comments and attention”</p>
<p>Most females dress in a way as to make themselves feel comfortable and/or attractive. In doing so, the attention they may receive is often wanted attention. The way you refer to frat parties suggest that females should not attend without body guards. Has it come to that?</p>