<p>To defend 07Dad, when he advises his sons to avoid drunken sex, that would protect them both from false rape accusations by drunken partners, and from their own sexual misbehavior while drunk.</p>
<p>Cardinal – 07DAD uses the specifica language “defensive living” – that to me is a clear indication that the actor has done nothing wrong, but is at the mercy of others. </p>
<p>I slow down at an intersection where I have the right of way, in case someone else does the wrong thing and runs a stop sign. But I am not breaking any rule if I were not to slow down. Thats defensive driving.</p>
<p>Its that language that 07DAD uses that I am asking clarification for.</p>
<p>No–</p>
<p>My son (if he followed my advice) would not (1) seek out or participate in sex if he had anything to drink, (2) would not be interested in sex with a female if she had a drink, (3) would not be having sex with someone he did not already know and with whom he had not already discussed sex openly. That is defensive living. And, if you substitute "“your daughter” for “my son” there would not be an incident.</p>
<p>Once again, there is no such thing (IMO) as an “unfair rape charge.” Rape is a criminal offense. Anyone who has been raped is reporting a crime.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang–that’s what would happen. Everyone’s children would benefit in every way imaginable. I have yet to have anyone identify the “plus” of mixing sex and alcohol.</p>
<p>
I don’t think he should bother. You’re just picking a fight.</p>
<p>Edited to add: Never mind, he’s a better man than I am in this respect.</p>
<p>I stand by what I said. “Defensive living” implies that the actor has done nothing wrong. It may be smart not to drink, etc. but the the clear meaning of the words that 07DAD himself chose, “defensive living” mean the other person is in the wrong. </p>
<p>I hope he didnt use these words to his sons, to communicate to the sons that they are not doing anything wrong or illegal if they have non-consexual sex.</p>
<p>It’s one thing to say its not smart to mix alchohol and drugs, BUT to imply that it is defensive living ignores the possilbity that it may lead to illegal acts. I think it is a mistake for parents to ignore that. Of course, since the penalty – at this point – can be 50 hours of community service, some, including the Frey father may laught at me.</p>
<p>Hunt–I should have followed your suggestion. </p>
<p>Sorta hard to see the reason of a request for a clarifcation!!</p>
<p>I can not say how much I appreciate comments like yours 07DAD – they make it clear more political action is needed. </p>
<p>Federal charges must be taken against Frey and Zehnder and anyone like them.</p>
<p>Anyone who is on the fence about whether kayf has been unreasonable in badgering 07DAD, please read his posts #692 and #703.</p>
<p>Kayf, defensive living as 07dad defines it protects EVERYBODY. It does not imply “the other person is on the wrong.”. Not in English, anyway.</p>
<p>LOL Hanna.</p>
<p>Pizza - I can not get ticketed or fined for not practicing defensive driving. I can get ticketed or fined for running stop signs, red lights etc. </p>
<p>Defensive driving may protect all (hopefully it does), but it clearly means going above what the law requires. </p>
<p>Maybe the problem is the law really doesnt protect women.</p>
<p>kayf, can’t you see that you are moving heaven and earth to put a negative interpretation on what 07DAD said about defensive driving–and also on what he and I and other posters are saying about just about everything? You should consider why you are doing that.</p>
<p>I am not moving heaven and earth. I am hoping that parents distinguish to their kids between what is smart not to do, and what is illegal not to do. </p>
<p>I am doing that because kids may take as a lighter condemnation of what is smart not to do, versus what is illegal not to do. Even if it only results in 50 hours of community service. I am doing that becuase I do not want to see more girls assaulted and I suspect that many teens may regard a warning of potential criminal penalties differently than just dad doesnt think it is a good idea. Especially if dad thinks some legal things (like people drinking over 21) are not a good idea.</p>
<p>I would be curious to know if Trinity High School bothered with any warnings in light of this.</p>
<p>“In advice to parents about what to tell their sons about sex, rarely are we advised to warn our sons that they might be rapists if they have drunken sex.”</p>
<p>I would like to add that this is actually taught in our public school’s health class.</p>
<p>I’d like to add my 2 cents regarding teaching boys about the opposite sex. It shouldn’t begin when they are teenagers or even pre-teens and the conversation shouldn’t START with mechanics like condoms and alcohol. But, it begins when they are toddlers and continues throughout their school years and it should focus on RESPECT, and on morals and values. The conversations need to start early and integrity and character need to be emphasized. Skip these lessons and it will be a difficult cramming session before leaving for college. </p>
<p>There is a thread with another real life example of what we are talking about. I’ve hardly been able to come back to this thread after reading it. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1391380-i-too-have-daughter-withdrawing-college-due-extreme-anxiety.html?highlight=anxiety[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1391380-i-too-have-daughter-withdrawing-college-due-extreme-anxiety.html?highlight=anxiety</a></p>
<p>I don’t see federal charges against Frey and Zehnder to be a course with a good outcome. To be sure, I, like many here, think that 50 hours of community service is too small a punishment. But I also think that the Feds ought not to meddle in the criminal justice system of states without a more compelling reason than that someone got a sentence that the Feds might deem too lenient. Lots of people get sentences that are too lax, but the Feds should have a higher standard than that for jumping in. IMO.</p>
<p>I have made certain to distinguish, for my daughter, not only between what is legal, and not legal (v merely not so smart) but also things I can fix, and things I can not. I have told her – plagarism and cheating is not only wrong, but I.CANT.FIX.IT even with money. Messy, damaged room is not smart, but I can fix. Big diff. Even more so with illegal v. just not so smart. </p>
<p>Cardinal – lots of people thought that “outside agitators” should not have come to the South in the 60s and demanded justice for blacks. A compelling reason for me is that one group does not seem to be getting justice. White private school lacross boys should not be able to sexually assualt, take pictures and disseminate. The prosecutor should not be connected with them. Judges should not issue incredibly reaching gag orders on victims. The judge had no right to tell Savannah she could not speak about the incident. Frey’s father had more of a voice in that hearing than Savannah.</p>
<p>Many of the comments here, about dress, liquor, etc lead me to believe that the feds need to step in.</p>
<p>OhioMom3000–</p>
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<p>Could not agree more. RESPECT for one’s self and the other person. Character and integrity so that the children respect and follow their parents’ rules. Morals-- personal behavior according to a moral code. Values including obeying ALL the laws. </p>
<p>If this is stressed by all parents to children of both sexes, what happened in this case would not have happened. There would not have been a party without parents, underage drinking – and on and on and on. None of this would have gotten off the ground.</p>
<p>07DAD – I can deal with my daughter and her morals. I want the law to protect her from people who violate laws. You persist in putting more of the blame on others than the boys. </p>
<p>Frey kept dissesimating pornographic pictures while he was presumably sober. Who knows what he will do while sober.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is one person on this thread, kayf, who does not think that what Mr. Frey and his accomplice did was horribly, criminally wrong. Not. One. Person.</p>
<p>ABS, but it seems that some people think that what others did, e.g., drinking, allowing them to drink, was just as wrong (or more, I can not tell) as what Frey and Zehnder did. I disagree with that. By continually emphaszing that none of this would have happended if Frey and Zehnder had not been drinking (which btw, we do not even know - at least Frey continued to engage in child pornography while apprently sober), it minimizes sexual assualt and pornography, imho.</p>