School in the 2020-2021 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 1)

That’s a shame. And I agree if that is what online learning means for your son, then that is not okay at all.

However, this past spring, everyone had to adapt very quickly with very little notice. I think this fall everything would (or at least, should) be much better. Online courses that have been planned well in advance, prepared for, etc. should be much much better than those thrown together at the last minute. I don’t fault any teacher or professor this past semester for whatever negatives happened with their online adaptations. They were all forced into something they hadn’t planned for, with great stress, and with who knows what was going on with each of them personally (relatives sick, people they know dying, etc.). I would like to think that this fall, with a few months of training and preparation, the online experience for their classes will be much, much different.

@sylvan8798 – when I said less problematic I was referring to statements by some that ‘dorms are like cruise ships or nursing homes.’ Agree the risks in dorms may be pretty similar to being in homes.

I also have said many times on this thread that there must be robust testing and contact tracing on campus to reduce impact of any outbreak.

Yes, these examples of spread by a single infected person are scary. But if that single person was wearing a mask in public and social distancing, it wouldn’t have happened that way.

We can’t always be looking back at how spread happened when we didn’t know and use that to dictate now. We have to use data and information about how spread can be reduced moving forward (until there’s a vaccine) using different protocols. That will lead to different outcomes.

The key is to establish community (in this case, campus) expectations and norms that will be followed. That may be harder in some places than others; it becomes an exercise in how to create new cultures for behavior. Again, not easy but also not impossible by any means.

Abbott’s ID Now does not have a high rate of false negatives based on its current use guidelines. See my post here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22805163#Comment_22805163

Looks like this model was made with no one wearing masks and everyone going to all of their classes. I don’t think any college is considering that right now. I wonder if it’s possible to come up with a model that shows what most residential colleges are really considering - singles in the dorms, distancing at the cafeteria or take out, a hybrid model of teaching, and masks when in class. And then there’s the testing. I’m not exactly sure how much colleges intend to test but that’s part of the equation too.

Schools are seriously having to make these decisions in the dark. It’s crazy.

I agree. One of my kids’ courses this past year was medical-related and absolutely had to involve in-person work, hands-on. There is no way that course could work well online. So 100% online will not work for many people depending on their specific course needs. But for a semester or two, for those who do not have such specific-need courses, it will work well enough as we get through COVID-19.

@JanieWalker Great post. I agree that students can successfully learn in online environments, but schools have to understand that they will need to invest in instructors and infrastructure to make that happen. I think many people think that online classes are simply classes delivered over video conferencing apps because that’s what schools scrambled to do on short notice. Delivering successful online classes requires much more, as you captured in your post.

I hope that schools that do not have experience with online teaching are reaching out to schools that do. Being successful will require a different mindset and some instructors may not be able to make that switch.

I hope that schools are willing to invest in enterprise-class collaboration tools as part of a suite of tools necessary to deliver online content. This may be hard since they are looking at loosing money without students on campus. It will be easy for a math professor to hold office hours with a video conferencing app like Zoom, but it will be easier to present the math class using enterprise collaboration tools like WebEx (or similar).

My alma mater has announced that they are considering converting all residences to singles rooms. All first year students are guaranteed residence and generally they need to accommodate around 4,600 students. They are looking to secure off campus housing to supplement as the majority of the housing is in traditional doubles.

Most if not all top-tier schools regularly admit homeschoolers as part of their undergraduate student body. Many of those admitted homeschoolers (most, perhaps?) had online courses during their high school years. Not to mention those admitted students who came from solely online high schools (like the highly regarded Stanford Online High School). I would hope that college admins are now reaching out to those online course providers and learning from them (Stanford OHS, PA Homeschoolers, the new Davidson’s, etc. etc.). What worked for their formally-homeschooled/online high school students should now also work for many of their now-undergraduates (for many, albeit not all, courses).

Online, when done well, can be very, very effective and engaging. When it’s done poorly however…blech.

There seem to be a lot of room for improvement. The college needs to provide better infrastructure, perhaps with dedicated rooms on campus so professors can deliver their lectures online without distractions. Professors’ homes aren’t ideal places to deliver lectures even when there’re no kids around.

Is it Western University?

It’s so funny how people receive the same information but have very different responses to it. Prior to reading Dr Bromage’s article, I had thought the transmission was coming from touching things, with the exception that if we were within 6 feet of someone, their infected droplets could travel the 6 feet before falling to the floor. I hadn’t realized just how much the virus could linger in the air and be spread due to HVAC.

So now I’m thinking about the professor standing in front of the class lecturing. I imagine it would be pretty awkward to lecture with a face mask on. And with all the jaw movement, would it even stay sealed, and if not, is that a big problem or a very small problem? And then you have the kid in the back row who has a question, and has to shout it, or at least use much more force to get the greater volume, thereby spreading droplets further than 6 feet. Going back to the discussion multiple pages ago about wiping off seats between lectures, it seems like that’s not going to be enough and that the lecture halls should be aired out/ aerosol disinfected before a new class comes in. I understand @AlmostThere2018 ’s comments about everyone wearing masks significantly reducing transmission. But maybe I’ve gotten lost with all the deluge of information and back and forth about what is accurate, but I thought the upshot was that many masks weren’t that effective because the virus is so small that unless you have a N95, it just won’t help all that much. (But of course wear one, because every little bit helps!).

I greatly appreciate @AlmostThere2018’s brainstorming about capstone projects and more mentoring, and asking for more innovative suggestions so our kids can get a rich education during this time.

My homeschooled kids have had a variety of online learning in middle/high school as well. Different colleges and various content providers over the years. No matter how well it’s done it has never clicked for one, and no matter how poorly it’s done it really hasn’t affected the other. Of course that’s the one who will be a performing arts major, so we are back to square with online not working for either. There is a student aspect here that has nothing to do with the school and nothing to do with maturity and motivation- some people just do not learn well in an online format. And this whole thing obviously just sucks for them. Nothing to be done about it.

To my point about new norms and expectations, including wearing masks.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-infections-would-plummet-new-study-says.

Here’s a money quote:

“Among the findings of their research paper, which the team plans to submit to a major journal: If 80% of a closed population were to don a mask, COVID-19 infection rates would statistically drop to approximately one twelfth the number of infections—compared to a live-virus population in which no one wore masks.”

A campus community is not completely closed, but it’s more closed than say, a city or a country.

I am wearing my mask out – are you?

Whether someone is a “good professor” depends to great extent as much on the students they have to work with as it does on the professor themselves. Some of the “great minds” teaching at Harvard would expire from shock at the students we are working with where I teach. I don’t consider myself to be a good professor there, given my typical course results. I do what I can.

I would say that my online experience this spring has not improved on the matter any. A number of students effectively vanished after spring break. Some of the rest may have spent more time on their courses simply from lack of other things to do.

Fair enough, @milgymfam. My observations and perspective come from a personal N = 2. Understood that what happens to work for my two will not work for every student out there.

CT is one of the states with the highest number of lawyers per- capita. A college instructor on this thread mentioned filing an ADA suit if accommodations weren’t made for his safety and health. Need to look to the university employee’s stance and pull especially in these more litigious states as they are a big piece of the puzzle.

More of interest:

https://www(dot)axios.com/college-students-attend-class-fall-6e67fcec-3e9d-4a2d-92b7-be48cbe244f6.html

"Nearly two thirds of college students say they would attend in-person classes if colleges reopen in the fall, even if there is no coronavirus vaccine or cure, according to a new College Reaction poll.

Why it matters: The findings suggest that even when faced with the prospect of packed-in lecture halls without a vaccine, most students want to get back to their classes and have an actual college experience, not a virtual one.

That could be good news for the financial survival of colleges and universities, but a huge challenge from a public health perspective, since there’s sure to be a continued need for some level of social distancing to keep virus caseloads from spiking again.
By the numbers:

65% say they would attend in-person classes.
31% say they would only attend virtually.
4% say they would withdraw from school.
Between the lines: The desire to attend classes in person comes as students report that the virtual education experience is full of pitfalls: 45% say they attend class less often and more than 70% say they’re distracted by their phone, computer and things going on at home.

The catch: The college experience isn’t exactly about sheltering in place and keeping six feet away from people, so college administrators will have to solve the public health challenges if they expect to bring students back.

That’s probably going to require lots of virus testing as well as other solutions, like holding large lecture classes online, only admitting smaller numbers of students to the campus and banning social gatherings above a certain size, Axios’ Erica Pandey reports.
And even with testing and tracing, it’ll be difficult for administrators to get thousands of 18 to 22-year-olds to keep to themselves and not throw any parties.
The U.S. jobs collapse has coincided with school getting out for the summer, and students are reckoning with rescinded full-time offers, postponed start dates and in some fortunate cases, virtual internships.

27% of students in the College Reaction poll say they have a full-time job this summer, while 23% say they have a part-time job.
Many other students are taking up volunteer work for their neighborhood or city or otherwise picking up new skills, Christine Cruzvergara, VP of higher education and student success at Handshake, a company that connects students to employers, tells Axios.
The industries that are actively hiring, according to Cruzvergara: education, health care, government, non-profit and technology.

The categories with the steepest declines: Hospitality, food and beverage, and arts and entertainment.
The bottom line: Most college students are ready to take their chances and return to campus — another sign that Americans’ tolerance of social distancing is not going to last forever.

Methodology: The poll was conducted May 8-10 from a representative sample of 835 college students with a margin of error of +/- 3.4 percentage points.

College Reaction’s polling is conducted using a demographically representative panel of college students from around the country. The surveys are administered digitally and use college e-mail addresses as an authentication tool to ensure current enrollment in a four-year institution. The target for the general population sample was students currently enrolled in accredited 4-year institutions in the United States.

You bet I’m wearing a mask. I think it’s horribly rude not to, since mask wearing protects the other person. I’m just not clear on how much it helps. But if it helps at all, it’s worth it!

Yes (though in my day we called it UWO :smile: )

If students vanish that is not the fault of the professor. The professor has his or her end of the bargain to hold up…and the students have theirs. A student not putting forth effort should not reflect on the quality of the professor. A student who blames the professor for the student’s lack of showing up or doing their work…well, that’s a student who is not ready to be in college to begin with.

EDITED TO ADD: If students weren’t showing up because they had their own awful COVID-related things going on – needed to quickly get an essential job to help support family, having to take care of sick family members, having close friends or family die, etc. etc. - then that is completely different of course.