@TheVulcan wrote:
We did. We’re really more in agreement here than you seem prepared to admit. Urban colleges - even very wealthy ones - are having a difficult time finding safe ways to bring everyone back.
There are many schools still accepting transfers, 764 still on the NACAC list of colleges with openings. I will say there aren’t any on that list with the stature of Bowdoin, however.
Many of the more selective schools are now just starting to announce their final decisions for fall 2020, and if a number of students take gaps/leaves, I expect some schools would open things up again for transfers, and maybe freshman too…why wouldn’t they?
I am just speculating, but if X number of Bowdoin students take gaps/leaves, why wouldn’t Bowdoin bring in students to back fill those spots? If that’s not their plan, why would they say they can’t guarantee that students who do take gap year/leaves can return when they want to?
Perhaps there would be room in the spring semester at some schools as well. All students can do is reach out to AOs and see if there are spots.
Broadway is expecting to remain closed for the rest of 2020 at least.
https://broadwaynews.com/2020/06/22/broadway-shows-expected-to-remain-closed-through-early-january/
I don’t understand the confusion here about why college’s are following the same protocol as every other industry that has large groups of people gathered together for non essential reasons.
Why would colleges care any less about its students and employees health than Broadway and every major sporting and live entertainment organisations are demonstrating to have to theirs this year?
I don’t think many kids are transferring anywhere if they attend a top school. Gap years sure. If not allowed they’ll be back.
It’s like threatening to quit your job. We all or maybe mostly all have come home and said that’s it. Only to wake up and feel different in the AM.
They are angry and confused. Naturally feeling salty. Also they all worked so hard to get to the schools of choice and seemingly are being short changed during the payoff phase.
Frankly I would have done the same exact thing.
I agree that Bowdoin knows full well the financial implications of its decision. It expects some students will try to take a gap year or leave of absence. It also pays a price for putting returning students in singles, likely not charging them the premiums for the singles.
Taking a gap year or leave of absence is never unconditional at any college. It’s hard to argue the condition Bowdoin (as well as Princeton, and others) imposes is unreasonable. If a student takes a gap year, the financial implication for the college is only some deferred payments. The real financial impact would be felt if the student transfers, which is always an option for the student.
Does anyone think that, if the NCAA called off football, that some big football schools would change their tune and not invite kids back to campus? Just curious. Things are not looking good for major league baseball or football right now. Why would it be any different at the college level?
That is not surprising since Amherst is different than MIT. My MIT kid probably missed more class lectures than he attended. The vast majority of his lectures were also posted online, so he didn't feel he was missing anything. He placed more emphasis on his study groups and UROPs. My kid at Williams loves the interaction that takes place in class and can't imagine wanting to skip class and miss that component.
While many MIT students may not be as upset about the prospect of online learning as the kids at Amherst may be, there are MIT students/ parents looking for housing in the Cambridge area so friend groups can live together even if classes are all online.
I’m with you except for your use of the word “salty” - I thought you were a fellow oldie 
@fretfulmother I am lol. That’s a really good point!
I’ve been watching too many college decision videos.
Not sure that comparison works. Singing and projecting your voice are considered two of the riskiest behaviors in terms of spreading a virus. That’s why you have several performing arts programs also announcing students will not be back on campus in the fall. Despite the small number of students in many PA programs, they are only having them take courses that fulfill gen ed requirements this fall because they cannot find a safe way (even in small groups) to have singing and acting. It’s not simply about being unable to reduce the number of people in the audience/venue.
You don’t see any difference between attending a Broadway show in NYC (ground zero for pandemic) and 3,500 colleges located in various parts of the country.
Broadway shows have their patrons in tightly packed, elbow to elbow, mostly small theaters. They can’t make money socially distancing with 1/3 room capacity, even if there was a demand right now (which there isn’t). The average age of broadway theater goers is 40+. Not opening has very little to do with Broadway’s concern for their workers or patrons health. If they knew they could be full capacity for multiple shows a day, they would do it in a NY minute.
Comparing Broadway to colleges opening or not opening is a flawed argument…
@homerdog. But why would so many want to transfer? That’s kinda sad that the student’s can’t deal with one semester not going their way. You are paying for their teaching style and what a degree from Bowdoin means.
I know the last semester was online but I would assume if they had a hybrid semester that it would of been a better experience.
I am asking to just understand it.
I will jump in and say that we don’t know if it’s one semester. Could be fully remote instruction in the spring too.
Also, they have said nothing about exactly what needs to happen to get back to normalcy…if it’s a vaccine or treatment (akin to Illinois getting to Phase 5), it could be years before all students are back and all classes are in person…just like it could be years before Illinois gets to phase 5.
It’s already two semesters if we count the recent mass exodus.
There are cancelled semesters abroad and summer programs cancelled. Intercollegiate sports for athletes. Love interests. (Meaning back home) Lots of reasons imho.
Exactly. It could be 1 semester, it could be 4 semesters, the colleges will make no promises. And while a student may make a decision to put up with it for the short term, they may be far less willing to do so at the price offered if this is a long term situation. It might be.
Colleges lectures have students tightly packed, elbow to elbow in small halls. Common social activities for 18-25 year olds include clubbing, bars, concerts which include shouting and intimate contact. My memory of student dorms included long hours hanging out in the corridors and kitchens chatting. Professors other employees and non traditional students are 40+Colleges involve several thousand people being together in one area for non essential reasons. I stand by my comparison to Broadway.
Nontraditional students generally do not attend residential colleges, and if they do, are less interested in the college social life, so going online isn’t such a big deal to them. It may be preferable, in fact, if they have dependents.
Agree that if Broadway thought anyone would buy a ticket, they would open tomorrow. Broadway visitors are way higher risk, and won’t be back for a long time.
@homerdog I think someone mentioned earlier in this thread that even though football schools do make a significant amount of money from it, they ultimately make much more money from tuition. If that is true, they would probably still let students back.
@homerdog I get that, but $28K is a a lot of money to spend for a semester of online school, when you could probably get that same experience from your state flagship for a lot cheaper.
Recent spikes in South and West in U.S. is making me discouraged if any colleges can realistically open campuses and dorms for most students in August - September and run some in-person classes until Thanksgiving without an outbreak(s). The confirmed case “number” seems like we are “almost” back to April in our state, California.
When all CSUs announced very early about fall online semester, I was shocked and disappointed… Why they even didn’t try to plan something a little better than just full online… CSUs said that just testing students would cost so much money. Instead, they are investing into quality of remote / online. Then, in last two weeks, more UCs announced mostly online fall semester with very limited housing / dorms.
Many of my son’s friends (all sophomore) attend one of those public universities and they are most likely going to stay at parents’ home taking online classes and find a part time job. It seems very practical for them. My son really wants / needs to go back to school to get in-person classes because he is music performance major at private conservatory (full of droplets!!!) He sounds like preparing mentally himself with an idea that he may end up staying home. A big metal shift since May.