School in the 2020-2021 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 1)

[ChemAM]

@wisteria100

@katliamom Are you saying that students at LACs are more likely to ignore the Covid rules than kids at universities? Schools like BC, UNC, Duke, Notre Dame with much bigger student populations and in locations with much more Covid are going back. I doubt those students are any more or less likely to follow the rules than kids at LACs. And I contend that a smaller school can have more control over variables than a bigger school.
Perhaps it is a football/basketball revenue thing. It seems like the D1 schools with tv contracts are going back. But D3 schools with big endowments like Bowdoin and Grinnell are bring extremely cautious and perhaps financially they can afford to forego room and board revenue. Then some D3 schools with smaller endowments are going back because perhaps they can’t forego the revenue? And some Ivy’s with massive $ also have very restrictive plans. So maybe these decisions are driven primarily by financials.

Middlebury has a similar endowment to Bowdoin and Grinnell and they are going back in fall. Plus, Amherst has heavily implied that most classes will be largely, if not entirely, in-person through the HyFlex model (HyFlex classes will be largely in-person, but will also be available online for students staying at home, according to Amherst’s FAQ).

[MBNC1755]

Has any school rolled out that they will be using a contact tracing app? Right now my daughter’s school is all self-reported- symptoms and contacts. While my DD would cope with being quarantined it takes on another facet if she has to name friends knowing they would be forced to quarantine as well.

[ChemAM]

According to an email sent out to faculty members last week which is now on Amherst’s website for COVID-19 communications, there will be much construction in coming weeks in preparation of students returning (even though they have not made an official announcement yet with regard to plans for students returning in the fall). I can’t help but wonder what that construction might be for?

[homerdog]

@ChemAM

@wisteria100

@katliamom Are you saying that students at LACs are more likely to ignore the Covid rules than kids at universities? Schools like BC, UNC, Duke, Notre Dame with much bigger student populations and in locations with much more Covid are going back. I doubt those students are any more or less likely to follow the rules than kids at LACs. And I contend that a smaller school can have more control over variables than a bigger school.
Perhaps it is a football/basketball revenue thing. It seems like the D1 schools with tv contracts are going back. But D3 schools with big endowments like Bowdoin and Grinnell are bring extremely cautious and perhaps financially they can afford to forego room and board revenue. Then some D3 schools with smaller endowments are going back because perhaps they can’t forego the revenue? And some Ivy’s with massive $ also have very restrictive plans. So maybe these decisions are driven primarily by financials.

Middlebury has a similar endowment to Bowdoin and Grinnell and they are going back in fall. Plus, Amherst has heavily implied that most classes will be largely, if not entirely, in-person through the HyFlex model (HyFlex classes will be largely in-person, but will also be available online for students staying at home, according to Amherst’s FAQ).

Midd endowment $1.1 billion. Bowdoin $1.74 billion. Grinnell $2.07 billion. I’m not sure that the differences here were the thing that swayed the decision. Grinnell likely would have had a hard time if the virus hit big since they aren’t near a lot of hospital beds. Maybe that was also part of Bowdoin’s decision. There was some analysis of ICU beds in Bowdoin’s committee report. It was a little worrisome. Yet, that can’t be all of it either if Bates goes back. I think all colleges’ decisions are made with a whole myriad of information and not sure one thing is the biggest reason.

[socaldad2002]

@ChemAM

@ProfSD

@msdynamite85

Colleges lectures have students tightly packed, elbow to elbow in small halls. Common social activities for 18-25 year olds include clubbing, bars, concerts which include shouting and intimate contact. My memory of student dorms included long hours hanging out in the corridors and kitchens chatt ing. Professors other employees and non traditional students are 40+Colleges involve several thousand people being together in one area for non essential reasons. I stand by my comparison to Broadway.

But the colleges are not advocating this. No one is having students tightly packed in classrooms. Read the plans. Those allowing students back to campus are all imposing significant modifications. This will not be business as usual, as we have seen from the numerous announcements from colleges. None of my colleagues plan to conduct their classes, office hours, or interactions with students and other faculty and staff in the same manner.

As for clubbing, bars, and concerts…not sure why you think that’s exclusive to college environments. Have you been watching the news?

I stand by my assertion that your comparison is severely flawed.

Agreed. The user who made the Broadway comment comparing it to classes clearly is not aware of the protective measures the colleges are putting in place.

Or the poster has never seen a live Broadway play with an orchestra pit tightly packed in under the stage, 50 performers dancing, singing above them and dozens and dozens of crew off stage right and left moving numerous set changes for 2.5 hours. Not to mention a 1,000 patrons taking a 20 minute intermission to get food, drinks and a bathroom break simultaneously with hundreds and hundreds of others theater goers fighting for limited space.

Last time I checked, a college class lecture consisted of exactly ONE professor at the head of the class, students will be limited to 25 or so in the class, spread out and social distancing.

Yep, a classroom lecture in the fall is the same as a Broadway show. ?

[Knowsstuff]

@ChemAM

@Knowsstuff

@homerdog. But why would so many want to transfer? That’s kinda sad that the student’s can’t deal with one semester not going their way. You are paying for their teaching style and what a degree from Bowdoin means.

I know the last semester was online but I would assume if they had a hybrid semester that it would of been a better experience.

I am asking to just understand it.

@homerdog I get that, but $28K is a a lot of money to spend for a semester of online school, when you could probably get that same experience from your state flagship for a lot cheaper.

Here now is the point that @ucbalumnus was making and sorta what I made somewhere else. This is not a slight to Bowdoin or any other school but why do you feel the experience is the same? I would think an elite (per people here keep saying it is) Lacs educational experience is much different then a(put any name here.xxxxx)Public State school?

My point is you pick Bowdoin or Amherst or whatever school for their educational integrity and excellence. Their teaching style. Their professors. Their alumni.Their connections … All that goes away if classes are online? If so, then that is sad.

[roycroftmom]

Much of it will go away. Professors vary in their ability to transition to online effectively. The quick meetings, or casual interaction with a prof after class, is gone. Bonds with classmates do not form as easily virtually rather than in person. The alumni are still there, I suppose, but even on campus recruiting for jobs won’t occur if online.

[Knowsstuff]

@roycroftmom

Much of it will go away. Professors vary in their ability to transition to online effectively. The quick meetings, or casual interaction with a prof after class, is gone. Bonds with classmates do not form as easily virtually rather than in person. The alumni are still there, I suppose, but even on campus recruiting for jobs won’t occur if online.

Can’t disagree more. Just checked job fairs will be held virtual for the fall in every segment. Kids naturally use FaceTime and the like even when in school. It’s a great way to be social. I would say it’s more the norm now even before covid. Sure you’ll have to schedule meetings then impromptu meetings with professors. That’s true. But the meetings will be more one on one (or groups depending) and I would think the professor might even get to know the student better. Maybe… Hmm.

All of this happened last semester with both of my kids at a small lac and a Big Ten school.

[Leigh22]

Online classes are not worth 28k.

[ChemAM]

@homerdog

@ChemAM

@wisteria100

@katliamom Are you saying that students at LACs are more likely to ignore the Covid rules than kids at universities? Schools like BC, UNC, Duke, Notre Dame with much bigger student populations and in locations with much more Covid are going back. I doubt those students are any more or less likely to follow the rules than kids at LACs. And I contend that a smaller school can have more control over variables than a bigger school.
Perhaps it is a football/basketball revenue thing. It seems like the D1 schools with tv contracts are going back. But D3 schools with big endowments like Bowdoin and Grinnell are bring extremely cautious and perhaps financially they can afford to forego room and board revenue. Then some D3 schools with smaller endowments are going back because perhaps they can’t forego the revenue? And some Ivy’s with massive $ also have very restrictive plans. So maybe these decisions are driven primarily by financials.

Middlebury has a similar endowment to Bowdoin and Grinnell and they are going back in fall. Plus, Amherst has heavily implied that most classes will be largely, if not entirely, in-person through the HyFlex model (HyFlex classes will be largely in-person, but will also be available online for students staying at home, according to Amherst’s FAQ).

Midd endowment $1.1 billion. Bowdoin $1.74 billion. Grinnell $2.07 billion. I’m not sure that the differences here were the thing that swayed the decision. Grinnell likely would have had a hard time if the virus hit big since they aren’t near a lot of hospital beds. Maybe that was also part of Bowdoin’s decision. There was some analysis of ICU beds in Bowdoin’s committee report. It was a little worrisome. Yet, that can’t be all of it either if Bates goes back. I think all colleges’ decisions are made with a whole myriad of information and not sure one thing is the biggest reason.

@homerdog According to the statistics, even if the entire Bowdoin student population returned and every single one of them got infected, there would probably only be one student who would need an ICU bed, and there could be no students who need one. So it’s kind of weird that number of ICU beds is such a large consideration for small colleges. Maybe they had a hard time finding off-campus housing to expand into? I think that is at least a plausible explanation for Grinnell. I also remember that many students at Bowdoin live in houses, and most of the freshmen live in these sort of quads with two students per bedroom (and I remember said bedroom being pretty small; even smaller than my single at Amherst) sharing a central area. Could that have been the issue for Bowdoin?

[katliamom]

@wisteria100

@katliamom Are you saying that students at LACs are more likely to ignore the Covid rules than kids at universities?

Goodness no. But at these small rural LACs in the middle of a long, hard winter, there’s not a whole lot to do BUT party. When you’re not studying very, very hard, of course.

[ChemAM]

I agree with @homerdog that it seems the size of the endowment is not a good factor in guessing whether a school will reopen. However, location seems to be pretty hit-or-miss as well, as Middlebury is very rural as well, and they are reopening to all students. Maybe there is no good individual factor in making said prediction.

[Sisternight]

I know that Bowdoin and Amherst are wonderful schools and all, but they each have such a tiny student population, that the emphasis on these two schools in this discussion is not very relevant to all the kids out here who don’t have the privilege of attending a hyper expensive tiny New England college.

[MrsWhatsit]

@MBNC1755

Has any school rolled out that they will be using a contact tracing app? Right now my daughter’s school is all self-reported- symptoms and contacts. While my DD would cope with being quarantined it takes on another facet if she has to name friends knowing they would be forced to quarantine as well.

UIUC has an app.

[homerdog]

@Sisternight

I know that Bowdoin and Amherst are wonderful schools and all, but they each have such a tiny student population, that the emphasis on these two schools in this discussion is not very relevant to all the kids out here who don’t have the privilege of attending a hyper expensive tiny New England college.

I’m the person who started the thread and our S is at Bowdoin. They just made their decision so it’s been a busy Bowdoin day on this thread. Parents and students and faculty from other schools have definitely been a part of this thread. I’d love to hear about more schools and wish more parents or students would chime in!

[homerdog]

@ChemAM

@homerdog

@ChemAM

@wisteria100

@katliamom Are you saying that students at LACs are more likely to ignore the Covid rules than kids at universities? Schools like BC, UNC, Duke, Notre Dame with much bigger student populations and in locations with much more Covid are going back. I doubt those students are any more or less likely to follow the rules than kids at LACs. And I contend that a smaller school can have more control over variables than a bigger school.
Perhaps it is a football/basketball revenue thing. It seems like the D1 schools with tv contracts are going back. But D3 schools with big endowments like Bowdoin and Grinnell are bring extremely cautious and perhaps financially they can afford to forego room and board revenue. Then some D3 schools with smaller endowments are going back because perhaps they can’t forego the revenue? And some Ivy’s with massive $ also have very restrictive plans. So maybe these decisions are driven primarily by financials.

Middlebury has a similar endowment to Bowdoin and Grinnell and they are going back in fall. Plus, Amherst has heavily implied that most classes will be largely, if not entirely, in-person through the HyFlex model (HyFlex classes will be largely in-person, but will also be available online for students staying at home, according to Amherst’s FAQ).

Midd endowment $1.1 billion. Bowdoin $1.74 billion. Grinnell $2.07 billion. I’m not sure that the differences here were the thing that swayed the decision. Grinnell likely would have had a hard time if the virus hit big since they aren’t near a lot of hospital beds. Maybe that was also part of Bowdoin’s decision. There was some analysis of ICU beds in Bowdoin’s committee report. It was a little worrisome. Yet, that can’t be all of it either if Bates goes back. I think all colleges’ decisions are made with a whole myriad of information and not sure one thing is the biggest reason.

@homerdog According to the statistics, even if the entire Bowdoin student population returned and every single one of them got infected, there would probably only be one student who would need an ICU bed, and there could be no students who need one. So it’s kind of weird that number of ICU beds is such a large consideration for small colleges. Maybe they had a hard time finding off-campus housing to expand into? I think that is at least a plausible explanation for Grinnell. I also remember that many students at Bowdoin live in houses, and most of the freshmen live in these sort of quads with two students per bedroom (and I remember said bedroom being pretty small; even smaller than my single at Amherst) sharing a central area. Could that have been the issue for Bowdoin?

Freshmen dorm rooms are really pretty big at Bowdoin. The doubles have a room with the beds and dressers and then each double has its own living room too that is a separate room with a door between it and the bedroom. At full capacity, Bowdoin holds 1800 students (it’s on their Covid report) and around 170 kids study abroad each semester. So even getting the study-abroad kids back wouldn’t have been easy and then they also seem to have decided that, at least for fall, they wanted only singles when many colleges have decided doubles are ok. They investigated other housing. There’s a report on that. Wouldn’t have been ideal with kids at some hotels nearby but not walkable to campus. So, yes, that was an issue.

[socaldad2002]

@Leigh22

Online classes are not worth 28k.

Many on CC would also say 28k a semester in person isn’t worth it!

Here’s the thing. At the end of the day, college is for 4 years and while 1 or two semesters might be rough and mostly, if not all online, the 75% will hopefully he back to relative normalcy.

The other thing is that thr degree from x college will still be valuable.

I’m sure colleges realize that online learning for the most part sucks and will do the best they can to make 28k a semester as enjoyable and fruitful as possible. I guarantee it.

[Knowsstuff]

So Michigan will announce tomorrow that they are NOT holding the October Presidential debate. They don’t want the extra people (media /supporters), on campus during a pandemic. They want to minimize interaction for their students. Hats off to them.

[melvin123]

@homerdog Im still catching up, but at tomorrow night’s virtual town hall meeting, why don’t you suggest to Bowdoin my idea of them granting X number of gap year requests that are guaranteed to come back at Y time? And they can do a second round for a predetermined later date? That way folks have a real option. As it stands now, that “option” is virtually meaningless because you don’t know how long of a gap you’ll be signing up for.

[homerdog]

@melvin123 I will try to get to the bottom of that. They must not know how many they can grant and that’s why they can’t say. It must partially depend on some factors out of their control. Maybe whether study abroad happens again and when. Maybe if they accept more transfer students if they find themselves in a position where x kids ask for a leave but then also how many kids decide to transfer out. They don’t have any of that info now.