The class offerings are probably a big factor if the student class levels differ from those normally assumed in the college’s business model, even if the total number of students is the same. Students in higher class levels generally take more specialized courses, and instructors may be less interchangeable than for lower level courses.
Funny about modular housing. BC built modular housing intended for short term needs in the 1970s (I believe). The “Mods” have become iconic and the number one place for senior housing. They are not nice at all imho. The school wanted to tear them down a few years ago with all the brand new facilities going up around them. There was an alumni uprising.
So there they sit next to brand new buildings and dorms. The kids still want to be there.
Maybe it will be a thing at all of the beautiful small schools too. Something positive perhaps and memorable in years to come.
I’d like to request that we stop describing disappointment as “mental health”. It’s a pandemic. Things are different. Kids will be disappointed. Sometimes a trope on CC is parents trying to shield their children from any disappointment. We come down on all sides of that one, but regardless - it’s not strictly speaking what we mean when we say “mental health” in society.
I don’t know anything about NYS (and it’s probably different than some, because I heard on CC about at least one district already announcing that they won’t allow opting into online school if that’s not the plan, so it sounds like schools may have more autonomy in NY).
However, the answer for this in MA is that the department of education has claimed that they would be giving guidelines for “85%” of what has to happen, last week. That did not happen. The implication, however, is that the state will give significant guidelines and then within that, schools will accommodate.
My imagination (take for what it’s worth) interprets that for instance as: the state says you can’t be above 50% capacity, and the school decides if it’s AM/PM or MW/TR for the students. And to answer your question, I can’t imagine that the states would ignore CDC guidance (and possibly other federal guidance).
Of course you are right that there will be a lot of logistical (and financial) scrambling. For instance, what if there are AM/PM groups and everyone leaves before lunch or comes back after lunch - do you close the cafeterias and have double spending on buses? Since human beings staff all of the above, the spending is not exactly fungible.
In my own district, there are committees at the district level “ready to go” to work with guidelines from the state, and committees at the faculty level “ready to go” to work with guidelines from the district. However, it’s already late June. In a normal year, I like to have all my syllabi planned/published, and all labs tested, etc., by mid- or late-July. Then I can focus on help to students who need a bit of an on-ramp, and other associated tasks. Not to mention the physical classroom, which usually we have access to in at least the second half of the summer to prepare - and it’s worsened by the fact that we couldn’t do the complete cleanout at the end of the year anyway.
(When Google Classroom rolled out some huge changes last year in August, teachers including me had a really hard time with that - some genius at Google remembered that the school year “starts in September” and moronically changed major parts of the platform, with no warning or choice about opting out, just days to weeks before then, with no attention to the fact that teachers get things ready way, way in advance. Not to mention students accessing course materials to get ready for the year! Also, we didn’t have the choice to just ignore Google, because our district and many others make us use GC for financial reasons. Although we put in “tickets” about the issue, they were generally ignored.)
Silverpurple it is my understanding NYS K-12 schools have to submit their plans to the state by July 1.
I just had the conversation last night with a friend who works in a public school mentioning the same thing you did (how will the state possibly be able to review all plans). She told me that her superintendent is on calls every day with other superintendents. I think there is a lot of regional planning going on which makes sense because so many districts share services. (special ed. for one)
I hear a lot of buzz that elementary kids will be coming in and spread out around all the buildings in a district. That doesn’t make sense to me because it would mean more staff. The schools can’t afford that. AM/PM doesn’t make sense to me either because you would need to clean in-between. Maybe the M/T half, clean W and other half TH/F, clean over weekend would work?
My personal guess is that in NYS all students with IEPs will go to school for in-person instruction and everyone else will be remote. NYS has very strict education law and special ed. really can’t be effectively delivered online. The special ed. population is very well organized and I’m certain is poised for lawsuits if they haven’t been filed already. They are already bringing in SPED for summer school and say that it’s mandatory.
I have read the CDC guidelines for public schools and personally I think they were written with a bar so high and hoop so small to make it financially impossible for schools to open so they would have to remain closed. JMHO.
SUNY colleges seem to say they are opening but details remain a little sketchy yet. I imagine the state will have more specific guidance at some point.
@fretfulmother. I respectfully disagree with your assertion about mental health and it merely being ‘disappointment ’. A mental health advocacy group did a study recently and found that 1 in 5 college students were suffering from mental health declines due to the pandemic and changes stemming from it. This was widely reported in news sources. So it is real.
@homerdog Don’t you think it will be the first years at Bowdoin who will be requesting gap years in droves? I mean it really sounds like a subpar experience for them despite the fact they will be on campus. They’ll be in a single, taking online classes, with limited opportunities for social interaction so difficult to meet people. No sports, outings and limited ecs. Then after 3 months they pack up and go home so when they return for their 2nd yr they still are relative strangers to the Bowdoin experience. It sounds lonely, a bit depressing and ripe for lots of homesickness. That would be the group I imagine would be most likely to take a gap year and just start fresh in fall 2021.
I can understand why colleges can’t specify which semester deferred students would be able to come back. It probably depends on their major and how many sections of each class are available. Labs can only hold a limited number of students, so those classes could present a challenge. Departments can’t offer additional sections without dropping other courses, but dropping classes means some students won’t be on track to graduate on time. I think the only way around it is to accept back a limited number of students each semester so classes aren’t oversubscribed. If students take a gap year with friends in the hopes of returning to college together later they should consider the possibility that they may not all be approved to return at the same time.
I guess it’s not just disappointment. It’s the complete fracturing of what the kids thought they had. First, the Bowdoin kids assumed they would be going back like most of the other NESCACs were implying they were. It was a shocker on Monday to get the plan. I think s19 and his friends were angry but felt like they were all in the same boat. But then the planning began. All of his friends thought they’d stay the course. Take remote class. And then try to live together. Yesterday morning was all about trying to find a place to live and realizing this was going to be very difficult. Some kids didn’t want a year lease in case they can be on campus in the spring. Some thought it was ok to get a year lease because Bowdoin said they could live off campus for spring even if they were invited back to campus. And some started questioning if this was worth it and started making noises about taking a gap.
Then came the town hall. Didn’t sound like kids could really “go back” in the spring if they lived off campus. The college didn’t seem sure it would be able to test them like those living on campus and they sounded wishy washy about whether those kids could go to campus for resources like the library or food or sports if they happen. I need to get clarification on that. Plus, all classes still remote in the spring so that’s not appealing anyway. Then another friend started talking about taking a gap.
I was on the phone with other parents. Everyone scrambling to see if there’s any housing in Brunswick and there’s so little available. We honestly don’t even know if they would rent to 19 year olds. Lots of limitations for S19’s group as there’s only one car in the group so they’d need to be walking distance to things they need. And now that student is thinking about a gap.
I feel a splintering of friendships because kids have to make their own decisions and those who thought they’d all stick together are likely feeling rejected in a way. It feels like freshmen year was a dream and somewhat of a waste now and they’ll all be starting over at different times and, thanks to Bowdoin, who knows when that will be. The kids can’t even make an educated decision because they will not know if they can go back in the fall. If there are too many deferrals, some won’t be allowed. We are calling today to see if we can understand how that will be decided. Who would they choose to go back and why a certain group and not another? Would it be by grade? Would they push off the incoming freshmen who deferred another whole year to fall 2022 like they warned those kids could happen? Would they do that first to make room for sophomores and juniors who took a gap so they could get back for fall 2021? How is one supposed to make this decision?
I want Bowdoin to figure this out. They are the ones who said unlimited gaps would be allowed. They need to figure out what they’ll need to do to get kids back when they want to return. More housing somehow. Figure out the class offerings issue. Just get it done. These kids cannot choose a gap and then maybe be out one year or 18 months or two years. Come on. They will have a rash of transfers if they can not accommodate. Maybe they don’t care? Maybe they think they will always have more applicants to make up any deficit from kids leaving? That doesn’t sit well either.
I don’t doubt that Bowdoin thinks they made the best choice with fewer kids on campus. Fine. I hope they succeed in keeping the virus from spiking. That was the first priority last night in the town hall and that was abundantly clear.
Not sure where we will be today on the decision. We need more questions answered about deferrals. S19 needs to decide for himself, separate from his friends, what he wants to do academically. If he wants to take a gap year then we need to do that knowing the risks. Maybe he can still live with friends. Maybe he should stay here and just visit with his friends to keep in touch. If he gaps and still gets three full years on campus, some of these boys might be there those whole three years. Some will be there for two of them. And he will also make new friends.
In his case, I don’t think his mental health is at risk but I do think a many of Bowdoin’s student mental health is. He’s been reading us comments from threads and some kids don’t have any direction, are not in good family situations, get all of their mental health care on campus. I know Bowdoin says they are helping my them virtually but not everything can be accomplished via FaceTime.
We will support S19 in whatever he chooses and try to help him organize his thoughts. This was much harder yesterday than on Monday. I hope he finds some clarity. We have two weeks to decide.
And @wisteria100 i agree that the freshmen experience sounds awful. They told them that, if too many take a gap year, they risk not coming back until fall 2022! I have no idea how this will shake out.
@homerdog You are talking to other parents on the phone? Are you the one making calls to look for housing and to the school? In my opinion, you need to step back and let him lead. Help him of course, give advice, let him know what you think, but he should be doing the legwork not you. I understand this is a big issue, but it is your sons problem to figure out, not yours. I can’t imagine calling the parents of my son’s college friends. My son and his friends found their apartment by themselves. My only role was signing as a guarantor on the lease.
@homerdog i just want to say I’m sorry for your son. My daughter learned last week that she won’t be on campus for her first semester. In 6 days, she seems to have gone through all the stages of grief and is almost at acceptance. I expect late August, when all of her HS friends are leaving, to be a terrible time for her. But I know once that passes, she’ll move forward.
I think having to make a decision, as your son does now, is the hardest part. Once he chooses a path, he can start to recover from his disappointment.
As an aside…any chance he and his friends could rent for a year somewhere totally unrelated to Maine? Could be a great year to live and explore somewhere totally new. If my daughter already had an established college friend group, we might have considered that.
@me29034 judge if you will. S19 has been looking on his own for places too but, you know what? These kids cannot make these decisions on their own. All of the parents I know are involved in the decision. They are paying the tuition. He’s talking to his friends. I’ve talked to parents I know who have kids at Bowdoin. I haven’t talked to any parents of his friends. My phone calls have just been to bump ideas off of each other to help the kids.
The [NYS Board of Regents and NYSED](Board of Regents and State Education Department Announce Regional Reopening Task Force Meetings | New York State Education Department) task force is holding their final regional meeting today “to develop guidance and regulatory changes that will enable New York’s schools to continue safely educating their students this fall.” They’ll compile the data from all 4 regionals and present it at a July 13th meeting. So guidance to the schools won’t come until mid-July or later. “Regulatory changes” suggests that the changes won’t be optional. Our local districts are discussing it now. I’m sure others are too.
It sounds like schools are making plans with guidance from the state (they have to address the 4 required points) and plans have to be submitted and approved.
homerdog I would be talking to all the other parents too. Too many decisions to be made fast under unusual time constraints/conditions. I am really sorry about all of this.
@homerdog. I apologize for that post. I would delete it if I could. I know we are all trying to do our best and the way we go about it is just different. I was called a jerk in another thread for saying a didn’t wear a mask in my car so I came here in a bad mood. I should not have posted that.
I second the idea of finding a place completely separate from school. If your son and his friends are all runners maybe look somewhere further south where they don’t have to worry about snow in the winter. There is no need to be in ME if they can’t go on campus.
@homerdog At the town hall did they give any hope that if things turn around, all the kids would be invited back to campus for the second semester?
It really is a mess for the students. It’s too late to transfer and the gap year feels dangerous.
Just my 2 cents… The problem is the price for online school. If it was 50% of normal tuition students could justify it and maybe plan some trips or ECs to balance out being at home. Right now they’re spending a big chuck of their college budget to hang out at home.
IL said schools will be in person with modifications. They are prioritizing the return of K-8, students with IEP, ESL, and the special needs community.
I tried to post the link but it isn’t working.
Here’s the link to the article that has the link to the state plan:
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/illinois-reopening-plan-pritzker-to-release-guidance-for-schools/2294252/
@homerdog I definitely understand the mental health issue and the great strain of making such big decisions under such time constraints. My daughter has been showing more and more sadness when thinking about the fall- and that’s without all the details even in place from her school. Her friend group too is all over the place and feels a bit… fractured… by the weight of different decisions. My daughter also said that she fully expects most people to break the rules. We discussed how her school is counting on the honor code to keep kids in line and she said she loves the honor code, but she thinks for most people it will lose to human contact, if kids are forced to choose. I hope when Haverford comes out write their details, they’re not as restrictive as we are imagining- but I fear they will be.
As I have said earlier, many doctors are concerned about mental health from forced isolation. One doctor on NPR argued for the reopening of colleges solely on the basis of mental health.