@sylvan8798 I never implied that. There is no need to be mean. And of course I am not some supreme genius who knows all math, but I am certainly not incompetent, like it initially sounded like you were suggesting. And I never attacked your understanding of math either, I don’t know where you are getting that from. The problem in the world today is rather than engaging in an exchange of ideas that bolsters our knowledge by exposing us to a wide range of viewpoints, we berate each other and do nothing but ridicule each other’s opinions. I think we should all take a step back and realize that we do each other and ourselves no favor by hating on each other instead of processing what others have to say.
@ucbalumnus Didn’t you account for that in your reply with the 5,000 additional probable deaths, and wouldn’t that partially be balanced out by the tests tending towards false negatives rather than false positives? Also, how come the USC and Stanford studies estimate extremely low death rates (Stanford study estimates 0.12% to 0.2% death rate; I know the sample collection was bad, but it couldn’t have messed up the study THAT horribly, right?)
The probable deaths In NYC were those where the death certificate listed COVID-19, but there was no actual COVID-19 test on the deceased (before or after death). However, if the deceased-of-cardiac-arrest that the FDNY found in larger numbers were listed as died of cardiac arrest, then they would not be among those probable, even if COVID-19 was a contributing factor in causing the cardiac arrests (COVID-19 is known to attack the heart and blood vessels, and the risk factors of hypertension and diabetes are heart and blood vessel related).
As far as Santa Clara County theorized death rates go, those may not include deaths listed as other causes that COVID-19 may have been a contributing factor, and Santa Clara County has a much higher income and wealth distribution than NYC (COVID-19 risk goes down as income and wealth go up, probably due to the usual factors like better access to medical care, less need to be in riskier (e.g. crowded) situations that may cause a higher initial dose of virus, etc.). Now, Amherst students may be from even higher SES backgrounds than Santa Clara County residents, but college dorms tend to be more crowded than higher SES suburban neighborhoods, and college age students are probably less risk averse in their behavior than their parents.
However, if there are not significant improvements in observation and treatment that substantially reduce the risk of bad outcomes of COVID-19 infection, many of those opened businesses will encounter lack of customers, since a significant percentage of people will still curtail their activity (including economic activity like eating at restaurants, travel, etc.) out of fear of COVID-19. Even before there were government orders affecting restaurants, I noticed eat-in restaurant patronage dropping to almost nothing.
@ChemAM @sylvan8798 Cut it out. Move on from your debates. This is a thread for discussing school in the fall. We don’t want yet another thread closed down.
It’s time to support colleges in being creative with their distance education programs. Online education can become an excellent modality for individual learning. The online student can be given easy and rewarding ways to interact one-on-one with instructors – much more so than on a physical campus. A student is much more likely to click a “Meet with professor” button than to show up for a physical office hour.
Parents don’t have to be boring. The savvy ones are active participants in their college kids’ online learning.
Remote learning may be the sleeping giant in the equation. If well designed, it can provide high quality individualized instruction. Online conferences with instructors, either one-on-one or in groups, are much more doable online than in person – if well designed.
CHEMAM writes @ucbalumnus I know. I said social distancing MIGHT not be necessary in fall IF we make good progress in treatments.
I also believe the youth will choose not to distance. For better or worse they’ve had enough. I think most want to get on with their lives and will hedge their bets with the virus and getting sick.
My kids don’t want individualized learning - they want to learn and interact face to face with a community of peers. Out of the classroom learning with peers is a significant part of the learning and college experience. In fact, all three of their schools expect the students to collaborate together on problems sets.
Many students also show up for office hours. Nothing beats face to face contact.
roycroftmom writes so maybe the burden should be on the vulnerable to isolate.
Bingo! I believe this is the shift we will be making in the USA. We have all isolated to slow the spread as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. Notice the Pandemic Team hasn’t been saying, “to stop the virus.” or “end the virus.” It’s just to slow it. Now that we have done that and Dr. Birx and Dr. Fauci say we will be prepared going forward, the shift will be for the elderly and compromised to continue to shelter in place. The rest will move forward with distancing, hand washing, masks, and various precautions we are starting to see (like temperature taking before entrance to an establishment). People will asses their own risk and move forward accordingly. This will be our new normal and we will live with and among the virus rather than hiding from it.
It certainly isn’t ideal (we would all love a vaccine now) but life will go on.
I envision college professors maintaining their space at the front of a classroom with students staying in their seats and not having those close one-one interactions. I think meetings with students will happen via Skype/zoom rather than in the typical small office of the professor. (or maybe a face to face meeting in an outdoor open space)
I think college professors have many options to keep themselves safer and distance. It’s the K-12 teachers who don’t have a chance. They are contained all day together and especially the elementary and middle school teachers are in very close quarters.
This is nuts. Parents should not be active participants in their college students learning. They can be cheerleaders, but no way should they participate. We aren’t talking about third graders.
I can’t imagine a single college student that would want a parent to be an active participant even if the parent wanted to be involved.
This is not a debate society and has nothing to do with this thread. It will get it shut down and against the TOS. Please move on…
Agree better to Zoom in the professors who are vulnerable than zoom in everyone. Student support services staff who are vulnerable can also zoom with students (financial aid, registrars, etc.)
Kitchen staff in dining halls will need to practice social distancing from each other and have sneeze guards and other protections to keep them from students.
Cleaning staff need appropriate PPE and likely deserve a raise most places.
Other people will be back at work starting this summer as well. But college faculty/staff need extra protections b/c young people can be such spreaders.
Also – mask wearing on campus, large classes broken up or go online, no large gatherings/parties, no sports (can’t have athletes traveling and bring things to and fro)
Again – I’m a broken record on this – comes back to testing and contacting tracing. There will be cases, but that’s what will minimize outbreaks.
Finally, guessing students will be required to sign liability waivers prior to returning.
This well-known college admission consultant thinks higher education will be very different after COVID-19 (many bankruptcies, shorter BA/BS programs):
https://www.insider.com/what-college-will-look-like-after-coronavirus-consultant-explains-2020-4
I agree and this is happening at my son’s school. The students are still doing their projects in groups then they have to present it to the professor as a group. Learning is still happening. My son’s job on campus which consists of meetings is still happening. This is the new normal and a hybrid will be imposed this upcoming year and maybe beyond. Learn these skills now and be prepared.
Not sure if this link has been shared yet, a list of colleges and their fall plans.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/Here-s-a-List-of-Colleges-/248626
I have yet to see anyone explain why college professors should be treated differently than anyone else, who will be back at work. If they have conditions that make them highly vulnerable, maybe an accomodation can be made temporarily, but everyone else could go back to work. The company I work for has essential employees working on defense contracts. That work needs to be done, so workers need to come in to work or use vacation time if they do not. If they are vulnerable, they can ask for an unpaid leave of absence, as could professors, presumably.