School in the 2020-2021 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 1)

Parents Forum
1941

If a college is running a dormitory, it is the college’s responsibility to deal with dangers, such infected students who could infect other students.

Someone upthread said that most covid-19 infections occur in families. We don’t have perfect statistics, but it seems that right now, the worst infection clusters are occurring in places where people live together or work closely together: prisons, elder facilities and meatpacking plants.

That’s why I worry about dorms; they are places where students live together closely. If a dorm resident became infected, seems to me the infection would run through the dorm like a fire, and then spread outward to the other people who worked at the school–teachers, custodial workers, research assistants, food service workers-- and to the residents of the surrounding municipality.

Adjunct professors are badly paid workers who are well qualified for other jobs. Bad compensation and the chance to catch a lethal disease do not make for an attractive job when less dangerous employers are also hiring.

1942

Agree that there is risk of spread in the dorm…there will be outbreaks on campus whether in dorms if occupied, or in off campus housing (whether school is in-person or remote). I have read enough schools’ press releases and covid-19 info and many state they are working on how to quarantine and isolate.

Why are so many adjuncts accepting these jobs then (pre-pandemic)? Pre-pandemic the job market has been very strong for a decade.

1943

Most adjunct faculty teach part time. Many have other jobs.

1944

Yes, many others have other jobs. a quick look at Stanford adjunct faculty in CS includes Andrew Ng and Sebastian Thrun.

1945

It’s convenient that my son signed a lease in November for a 4 bedroom apartment where each bedroom has its on bath.

1946

WashUStL statement re: fall…
https://source.wustl.edu/2020/04/washington-university-begins-planning-for-fall/

They expect to have a fall semester, but how and when tbd. Interesting that, since BU floated the idea of skipping fall semester, all the schools feel the need to say they will have a fall semester, but stopping short of committing to on-campus, in-person classes.

*“As we all know, there are many uncertainties during this time that make planning for the future incredibly difficult,” Martin said. “However, based on the information that is currently available to us, I can say with confidence that we will have a fall semester at Washington University. We are squarely focused on understanding the steps we must take now in order to allow us to welcome students back and begin our return to normal operations. While there are still a number of unknowns, rest assured that however we proceed, we will do so in a smart, strategic way, with the safety of our community as our very highest priority.

“We know the path to recovery will be long and challenging. There are no quick fixes here and we’ll need to rely on the same ingenuity that allowed us to respond quickly at the onset of this crisis — as well as guidance from our infectious disease experts and all available data — to inform our way back…

To guide high-level decision-making, Martin has appointed a Fall Contingency Planning Committee (FCPC) focused on the educational mission of the university, to explore a number of scenarios to inform planning in critical areas including academic calendars, curriculum, residential life and resource management. The committee’s first priority will be to set a timeline for when decisions will be made and how those decisions will be communicated to the university community. *

1947

Actually, it is possible for the instructor to be remote doing live instruction, if the classroom has the appropriate IT-type infrastructure (e.g. a big screen in front). This can be generally beneficial going forward in that an instructor who is sick (of anything, not just COVID-19) can stay home and give the instruction from home (including interactive instruction if that is typical for the class). I.e. just like videoconferencing in many workplaces.

Of course, many instructors would prefer to do the class in person, but it gives them an option if they are unable to do so occasionally.

1948

There seem to be two classes of adjunct:

A. Adjuncts who work in or are retired from industry, government, and/or non-profit jobs and consider teaching a college course an interesting “extracurricular”, rather than doing it for the money, and are hired to teach specialty courses where a non-academic perspective is useful.

B. Adjuncts whose primary job is teaching college courses as an adjunct instructor, and may be teaching more than one course at more than one college at the same time.

It would not be surprising if most of class B adjuncts were teaching lower level service courses that would be uninteresting to class A adjuncts. It would also not be surprising that class A adjuncts who still fear the virus will disappear, but class B adjuncts who need the money will have to determine for themselves how much risk is worth taking for the money.

1949

Class B adjuncts who need the money could probably get more of it at a different job.

1950

Class B adjuncts are often those hoping to get hired as tenure-track faculty (though the reality is very few will be).

1951

Seems like getting a tenure track position nowadays is about as difficult as becoming a major-league athlete. Like minor leaguers, tenure track wannabes toil away in jobs with low pay and bad conditions, hoping to get a chance at the big league. But if the conditions are bad enough, they’ll quit, because they don’t like the jobs they’re in. And a (perceived) higher risk of getting a fatal disease, combined with a bigger workload as some work goes online might be what pushes them over the edge.

1952

SuzyQ, I think the 2 threads started with unique purposes–they began before all the colleges closed, so the one titled “campus issues” was largely addressing this spring–should colleges close? should kids pack up all their belongings before spring break? how does online school work? other issues, etc. This one with “fall” in the title began before everyone was thinking about fall, when a lot of people were focused on the current year. It differed from the other thread. At this point, it seems that everyone is focused on fall, so their purposes merged. I think it’s ok to have 2 threads, or ok if they merge now.

Yes, I think all the schools are looking into quarantine areas. I know that at least a few are looking into booking hotels (which obviously have empty–therefore cheap-- rooms) for quarantined students, as they have their own rooms/bathrooms, etc. I think with abundant testing, temp checking, contact tracing and available quarantine rooms, this may work out ok. BUT, obviously when the time comes closer, we parents would want to hear more detailed plans about whether anyone is checking in on the sick students at the hotel, how often, telemedicine availability, etc. I admit I’m happy my kids would be just an hour away because honestly I’d go get them rather than have them sick in a hotel. BUT, at the same time, I am mostly hearing about young people having symptoms that mostly resemble a mild cold. So maybe they are better off in the Quaran-tel, and not bringing their dirty selves back into my house ;-). Although I am a proponent of figuring out how to smartly/safely get them back on campus, I admit I would be very nervous if I found out they had it, until they got better. A few days of nerves would hopefully be it, universe-willing. I would definitely be more nervous if they went to school farther away. But obviously schools are working on plans so that kids who opt out of being there in person can do school online (which has the added benefit of de-densifying campus for the rest of the kids/professors/workers), so the nervous parents can keep their kids home if that is their preference.

Somebody posted about concern for the vulnerable (elderly, otherwise compromised) who live in college towns, and how it’s unfair/self-serving to expect them to have to self-isolate while college kids return to town. I utterly disagree. First, as our governor has made clear, the vulnerable are sadly, unfortunately, going to have to self-isolate throughout this until the vaccine is available or they otherwise are safe(ish). That’s just the case. It stinks, but it’s true. Whether college kids are in town or not, the virus is out there and the vulnerable need to hunker down. (and personally, I am carrying some extra pounds that make me more vulnerable than I otherwise would be, and this is great motivation to shed those to make myself less vulnerable. Nothing I can do about my advancing age, though, waaah). Additionally, if these kids have leases and are paying rent in those towns, who is to say which town they belong in? The one where they are paying rent, or the one where their parents live? It’s not clear that they do not belong in that college town. However, while I disagree that this is self-serving to allow college kids to live in their rented housing, my heart breaks for all of the vulnerable, regardless of the town they live in. This virus is the enemy, not kids. This virus is simply the worst!!

1953

New USC President Carol Folt yesterday (Wednesday 4/29) gave her first annual State of the University address via Zoom. This Daily Trojan article states:

“University administrators are currently considering plans for reopening in the fall. Most classes, even if offered in person, will have virtual options as well, Folt said. She confirmed that students from all academic programs would continue to make normal progress toward their degrees, regardless of the format of classes next semester.”

According to the article, President Folt also stated:

‘“Our teams are actively exploring options, including delaying the start of on-campus classes by several weeks, retrofitting our facilities for social distancing and pursuing hybrid models that include online and in-person activities in all classes,” Folt said. “We plan to decide about that in the next two months. We appreciate your patience, and we will keep you closely informed.”’

You can read the whole article about her address here:

https://dailytrojan.com/2020/04/29/carol-folt-delivers-state-of-the-university-address/

1954

The problem is, who is “vulnerable”? Somewhat more than half of adult Americans are either elderly (>= 65 years old) or have a risk-increasing condition (obesity, diabetes, hypertension, etc.). Even within just the non-elderly, over a third of adult Americans (including nearly a third of those age 18-24) have some risk-increasing condition.

When “vulnerable” includes a large percentage of the population, that becomes a different problem to solve compared to the situation where “vulnerable” means the smaller percentage of the population who normally takes extra precautions against infection (with anything).

Now, if medical knowledge advanced to the point where “vulnerable” is better defined, that may change the game. But we are not there yet.

1955

Yeah, UCB, I think we will be much closer to “there” by August. Sure, there’s a range of “vulnerable”. Obviously if you are 85, have hypertension, diabetes, are obese, and in general ill health, you are extremely vulnerable. If you are 65 and incredibly fit, no other conditions, run marathons, you are less vulnerable. If you are 20 and have a very mild case of asthma that is well managed, you are more vulnerable than your peers without asthma, but the data already shows you are not “very” vulnerable. I have no doubt whatsoever that this data will be more clearly detailed and released in the next 4 months before school starts. Everyone will assess their own risk. But regardless, those who feel vulnerable will sadly be forced to take care of themselves (and the healthcare workers) by staying home.

So my main point is, regarding the posts that claimed it was self-serving for students to move to their college towns, remains: who is to say those students don’t even “belong” there? They are paying rent, just as other townspeople pay rent. Who says they more belong in their parents’ houses than in their rented apartments? Many people live in towns with people who have COVID. If you are vulnerable, you need to keep yourself safe, and with delivery services, it’s possible. (By the way, my kids do not have off-campus housing, so this is not a personal issue, just a practical issue to me).

1956

As others have noted, the risk to college students of a bad outcome from covid infection (hospitalization or death) is microscopic. Colleges and universities cannot continue online learning and await a vaccine or curative treatment which may never come. The value of the education is seriously diminished and the financial hit from reduced enrollment and revenue will put many colleges out of business. Of course, colleges students interact with older professors and community members who may be more vulnerable. The vulnerable population need to be isolated to reduce their risk . This is a risk benefit analysis that is a feature of government policy making. There is no perfect, risk free solution.

On the question of “who is vulnerable” a risk profile already exists which should guide public policy and institutional decisions. There will always be outliers but the goal should be to manage the risk. Some reliable data about fatalities from covid is important. By way of example, the Massachusetts Board of Health reports that of the covid fatalities in that state, the average age is 82. About 64 % were over 80 years old, 86 % over 70 yrs old and 95 % over 50 yrs old. No one under 20 in Massachusetts has died from covid. 1 person under 30 has died and 7 others under 40 have died. In Pennsylvania, 65% of the covid fatalities were nursing home residents, mostly in their 80s and 90s. The point is the public health policy relating to reopening colleges in the fall has to make a realistic risk assessment, and should be focused on protecting the vulnerable population (especially those over 65 and definitely those over 80). Those people will need to isolate whether studenyts are on campus or not. However, we cannot keep colleges closed/reduced to online learning until the virus is eradicated ( and that was never the stated goal of the shelter in place orders).

1957

Michigan is planning on funding degrees for key workers like the GI bill. It won’t make up for OSS or international student drops for colleges but At least it’s a possible extra cash infusion for them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/wesleywhistle/2020/04/29/michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer-announces-free-college-for-frontline-coronavirus-workers/#5199a09393c5

1958

Ask yourself, is the 70-year-old carefully isolating and social distancing in Collegetown equally as vulnerable when no students have covid-19 in the dorm across town, and when 200 students have covid-19 in the dorm across town? Clearly she’s at more risk when there is an outbreak across town, because she unavoidably must expose herself to some risk when she shops for food and so forth. And that is why the college is bound to try to reduce outbreaks, by testing and isolating infected students and their close contacts, so that 200 students don’t get infected and infect other people.

1959

But shouldn’t that be the same as if 200 residents of an apartment complex have covid?

1960

Microscopic? Not from the data I’ve seen. If a whole dorm of kids got covid, some would end up in the hospital. I don’t call that a microscopic chance. College-aged students who get covid have a tiny chance of dying, but that’s because when they get very sick they probably don’t die, not because they have a microscopic chance of getting very sick.