Oh, and @Calliemomofgirls - Foxcroft checks the boxes for STEM and volleyball, too. 
An update, and I would love any thoughts, here or via DM.
I am posting here because I need to STEP AWAY FROM THE DECISION for a moment. It is starting to feel swirly in my head, and I know that I’m the one to have the framework. But suddenly: I’m swirly.
And you – well you are all so wise and generous to give some thoughts.
Here is the list as it stands: (* just means still requiring SSATs for the moment)
APPLY (not in preference – just grouped into rough categories of geography/all-girls):
Hotchkiss
SPS
Andover
Brooks
Kent
Mercersburg
George
Miss Porter’s
Westover
Emma Willard*
Madeira
Chatham Hall
Thacher
Fountain Valley*
Culver
Asheville
Maybe:
Groton*
St. Andrews (DE)*
Loomis
Berkshire
Pomfret
Williston Northhampton
Portsmouth Abbey
Cate
Dana Hall
Grier
Foxcroft
Considered, but Probably not:
Choate
Episcopal
Canterbury
Deerfield
Millbrook
Blair
Tabor
Characteristics we considered (roughly in order, but not exactly):
Engineering, Volleyball, FA/Merit available, space and resources (curriculum/ECs) to try new things, especially in STEM and especially for a young woman, community within a community, access to horse riding (doesn’t have to be competitive), access to dogs, snow, ability to do some winter sports, access to visit sister (at Andover), “Non-elitest” vibe.
Basically, someplace who really deserves to get the amazing little gem that my DD3 is! (Her 3 sisters joke that DD3 “is the best one of us.” They are only half -kidding. She is amazing and wonderful and kind and sensitive and quirky. But as you may remember from earlier in this thread, she is not the ra-ra-leader type at all – that’s DD2.)
We are now considering just going back east and driving around some campuses (a few allow drive-ons, and a few allow outdoor tours, but not many). But we are feeling like there are just too many schools she would love to visit. Not any one school has “everything” which presents the problem: if every school is short a couple of things, then it’s hard to eliminate any of them. It comes down to culture and fit I think. And I feel less hopeful about spring revisits lately.
Also – just want to add – it turns out DD3 is not super comfortable on Zoom and is really fidgety. So virtual interviews are not going to showcase her charm.
OK, I leave the SWIRL in your capable hands.
And if you have nothing to say, no problem either. Just knowing I have invited someone else into my headspace is helpful.
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I am bumping this - I am also interested in what input people have. And I get the swirl stage. It is a lot. Happy to be invited into your headspace!
@Calliemomofgirls, I don’t have a lot of wisdom on your list, since it is very East Coast and girls schools. But I have faith in your research skills. What does your daughter think?
If horses are important- that seems like the best way to narrow the list. You have an awful lot to filter through if you don’t have some arbitrary cutting mechanism.
I would love for your quirky gem to be interested in Cate, but there is no snow or horses, so if either is a deal breaker, sigh. I will have to deal with disappointment. ??. But if she can deal without horses, Cate has a ridiculous number of dogs! And vb! And quirky! And girls in stem! And kind! And support for trying new things (if kiddo tried new things there, any kid would feel comfortable doing so).
Engineering has always been a head scratcher for me. Small schools will have a harder time providing that specificity. I have never understood how there is space in a student’s schedule for the deep dive into a subject like that once you cover the requirements. If you do 4 years of a language, there just isn’t a lot of free slots in a schedule. A great stem high school would also be a great engineering high school. I could be wrong, but if engineering is important, seek out the schools with the best robotics programs and Makers labs as a proxy. It says a lot about the school’s devotion to engineering without it taking up space in the academic schedule. I think of Deerfield and Choate being good for those things, but there are others on your list for sure. @Happytimes2001 might have some insight into engineering schools?
I am definitely ?about yours and @buuzn03’s search. Fascinating to see what families do after having one search under their belts. Keep updating!
@CateCAParent This is really helpful. The engineering piece is a bit of a puzzle for me too because for all the millions of jobs I have held, I have never done anything in engineering. (OK not 100% true: I was a computer programmer and software architect for a few years after grad school, but it was such a bad fit for my soul that I honestly have zero idea how to nurture that part of my DD’s love.). It’s also a puzzle because high school is a usually not about specializing, and I like that.
So. How to nurture a love of something (that mom doesn’t understand at all), without getting into a specialized space?
And your answer is exactly what I’ve been thinking: looking at the non-curricular options in particular, so that she can explore without having to commit fully to “using up” her few elective spots. Maker’s spaces and robotics are proxies. That said, I also want to see some elective options that I think would interest her. Some schools offer a form of engineering, for example. Some schools only offer CS, which isn’t ideal. One school offers a 1 year survey/intro course to STEAM to all freshmen who want to take it, and it is P/F to remove the stress of trying something new. (Me: YES PLEASE!!!)
The other thing that I am looking at in the STEM space is: who would be her peer group? When she shows up to the robotics club meeting, is it going to be 90% boys, some of which look about twenty, who have been programming for the past ten years? If so, she will stop the exploration I think. Can she be a newcomer to these STEM disciplines?
I want her to head down to the maker’s space on a weekend afternoon and just lose herself in some work with friends there. I want her to be thinking about what kind of summer internships might she find cool in her junior or senior year. I want her to have: SPACE to explore. (And space to decide that she doesn’t love engineering after all, and she wants to, say, become an architect. Or whatever. She’s 13.)
@Calliemomofgirls already knows this, so I put this out there for anyone else who may be following this thread. Westover. While it doesn’t have the horses her daughter wants, it does have a wonderful WISE (Women In Science and Engineering ) program. While there is a CS component to it, they have some amazing science/engineering electives that gives a great introduction to different types of engineering. First year classes are pass/fail, so if you don’t like the classes/program there is no impact to your GPA. My daughter is taking a foundry class right now where they are going into the chemical analysis of melting different metals. They are creating forms and casts so they can make their own creations. Next semester she is taking a renewable energy class where they will, obviously, discuss different types of renewable energy, but will then work to build a solar panel or wind turbine (small, of course!). In their senior year they get to create an engineering project of their own. Does this extra program impact other electives? Yes. With that said, many of these classes count as an arts class and there is plenty of room in the schedule to fulfill the other required classes (there are fewer required art/music classes if you are in the WISE program). Since Westover is an all-girls school, there will be no worry about being in classes and clubs dominated by boys. So if there are any girls - or parents of girls - out there looking for engineering classes, Westover may be worth a look.
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For students who are pre-engineering, getting to do a deeper dive in the sciences and getting to advanced levels in math and science can be a huge challenge with other requirements, especially if you aren’t advanced in math (by BS standards) when you arrive.
Some schools have found ways to create this flexibility. They may not require FL beyond 3 years or 3rd level, for example. George offers a summer option (online, pre-covid even!) for u.s. history which is helpful for students who want to open up their schedules for another STEM class. It may be that their robotics and maker spaces are available all day so that a student can drop in during free periods, not just for class or club.
I think you are looking at the right things. I suspect that if a school is genuinely inclusive and welcoming, it will be in this arena too.
I love hearing about the girls schools. I think it would have been a great thing for me back in the day, but I would never have considered it at that age. Westover sounds amazing.
I have a huge soft spot for girls in stem (my 84 year old mom has a phd in a science, which makes her a trail blazing rock star in my book). I have a niece who is a college prof in computer science. But alas, I have an only child son, so I have to live vicariously though opds (other people’s daughters).
Honestly, I think this generation is doing a lot better with girls in stem. I don’t doubt that there are boys out there still dominating (or trying to). But I doubt you could go wrong with any of the schools on your list. At Cate anyway, plenty of the top stem students are girls. I would think it is the same everywhere.
Oooh! Thought of another proxy: how many of the stem faculty are women? Nothing beats a good role model.
Kiddo is considering doing a summer class to clear out space in his schedule next year for more stem. So that is totally an option that people take.
@CateCAParent yes! one of the takeaways in my research on girls schools (which I posted in my cleverly-named post “what I’m learning about girls schools”) is that mentorship is a very large success factor for girls in STEM. Which has led me to ask that exact question of schools: what would the community look like for a STEM girl, particularly as it relates to older students and faculty role models. (I broaden the concept of mentorship a bit to include role models.). Number of female faculty in STEM is a great proxy for that so thank you. I love a spreadsheet and metrics.
@gardenstategal you bring up a really good point that I want to highlight here. DD3 is NOT advanced by BS standards in math. I say that completely safely because DD2 just found out that she is middle of the pack at a rigorous BS, even though she was 2 years ahead in math in our tiny hometown school system. DD3 is an A student in math, but regular ole math. (Our school doesn’t offer advanced tracks. We actually had to petition the district and get external letters of evaluation and support in order to get DD2 to jump tracks and get into high school math.). So I actually think that DD3 might be really challenged in next year’s math. At Andover, for example, I am 100% sure she would take the “lower level” 9th grade math, and she would be PLENTY challenged! (I say this because DD2 has been plenty challenged in the “regular” 9th grade math).
@Calliemomofgirls I just learned that Kent is now offering limited on-campus visits! This would allow you to actually walk the campus, meet some students, interview, and potentially visit the Pre-Engineering center. I’m sure it is all very protocol-heavy, but at least it’s in-person.
All these search threads make me want to go back to school. I would be an excellent student, now that I really know myself.
Choate has excellent STEM. The school overall has great female representation and role models. My older son’s precalc and calc teachers were both women, as were his chemistry and english teachers. In fact, the head of computer science is a woman. My son has really enjoyed all of their classes.
The robotics team also has great representation. Check out the photos of the team on their FB page.
I can speak from experience that many STEM programs do have more boys than girls. But that is changing fast. Girls in these programs are usually peers and may even be the more technical kids. Girls in girl only programs have a different experience. For some, this is the way to go, insulate and have girls do STEM apart from boys so they can be mentored and not be subject to some of the things which make girls fall behind. I am neither a proponent nor opponent of all female programs.
Like most things, they have pluses and minuses. I’m happy to share some great highly successful girl programs which have made national, and international headlines. For the most part, all boy and all girl teams are disappearing fast. Most teams are filled with both sexes. If you are at all concerned finding a mentor or coach who is committed to fairness is important. It’s best when you have male AND female mentors. And I love seeing female heads of a math/science department.
If you are considering robotics, maker spaces or math teams, you need to speak with the people who run these groups and see if there’s a fit at that school. It could be your kid is a beginner and kids will have years of experience in these fields ( think similar to sports). Or they could have various levels or they might have short programs. Also, many of these programs are run based on interest. So some years, there will be enough kids to make a team and other years not so many.
My kids who are very stemy found some fits and many programs which were not applicable. So of the programs were for first timers and others took up a lot of time so that matters also.
I’d also check teams carefully. A long term coach can also mentor students and have a lifelong impact. I know of one such coach. This person has mentored dozens of engineering/math students. The impact is profound. Some of these folks can be found at various BS. You’ll likely know if you meet someone like that.
Also check out the schools add on curriculum. If your kid wants to take a class and it doesn’t exist will someone hold it for them?
At one college visit my kid made, the college said they don’t count CS or Engineering classes in high school as they are so variable. Interesting.
I think kids can get great insight into STEM careers and professions at most BS. Some will have better programs than others but there REALLY isn’t one that is best. I could name 10 schools that are strong at least.
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I just found out Putney has a horseback riding option for an afternoon activity, if you haven’t already considered them. They only have one engineering option and no maker space, but they do have a lot of hands on work and so many opportunities for independent studies. They’re very progressive and seem to have no elitist vibe at all!! No pressure on sports because there aren’t any cuts or tryouts. Grades are also not in the picture until junior year (I think) to decrease competition. The only thing I didn’t like was that they don’t offer Latin D:
Thanks @mondaydevil! We had actually already considered Putney but no VB and no makers space were dealbreakers for us. I’m excited to hear where you end up applying as I think you and my DD3 will have several crossovers!
Updated school list + questions
Here is our working list (in rough categories) for DD3 and my comments and questions below, if anyone is open to giving us feedback, either here or via DM.
LIST:
Co-ed + horses (east coast)
George
Kent
Co-ed + horses (variety location)
Thacher
Fountain Valley*
Culver
Asheville
All girls:
Miss Porter’s
Westover (may not have rec riding)
Madeira
Chatham Hall
Co-ed kind culture (rec riding avail nearby):
Mercersburg
St. Andrew’s DE
Berkshire
Pomfret
Maybe: (rec riding avail)
Portsmouth Abbey
Williston Northhampton
Maybe: (rec riding not confirmed)
Brooks
Emma Willard*
Probably not due to rigor and independence required:
Groton
HK
SPS
Andover
Choate
My thoughts/questions:
Thought:
I have been hearing a phrase that jumps out at me – some version of: “We have lots of resources, but the kids need to be independent enough to seek them out.” I have decided that this is the opposite of “kids are surrounded by their community and don’t fall through the cracks here.” My DD3 would thrive in the second category, not the first. She is very young (will be 13 as a freshman), and she is sensitive and kind and deep. She could drown in a college-light environment at 13. She could wait a year or repeat, but I don’t think she would need to if she just went to the right school for her. She is not the type-A want to get into an Ivy at all costs type. Not at all. Dean’s list, yes. Smart enough to hold her own anywhere. But she is not even a tiny bit influenced by prestige in her BS pursuit. Why not find a place that surrounds her and supports her in finding her own best self, since she is a deeply connected, thoughtful soul?
Question:
Do you agree we have selected the right schools to remove due to independence/rigor required? (see list above)
Thought:
Some of the smaller “typical NE boarding schools” might be GREAT fits for her, but we just haven’t visited. Online, they are all kind of blending together. Specifically, Berkshire and Pomfret are blending together. Also, Williston, Brooks, Portsmouth Abbey are a blur. Williston - I picture perhaps academically not as solid as the others. Brooks – I picture maybe a little more preppy and maybe not quite as friendly? (but close to DD2 at Andover). Portsmouth Abbey – obviously catholic, but seems open-minded (we are protestant, but fairly modern and progressive so an overly conservative culture might not fit well).
Question:
Any insight into these schools?
Thought:
DD3 is NOT currently a big horseback rider, but wants to do it in BS. So I’m kind of trying to thread the needle – getting that option while not eliminating a school for one EC that she may or may not actually end up doing in a big way. (Although I do think that if a school has riding available, she would absolutely dive in fully. She is pretty consistent in what she loves, and I trust her words on this.)
Question:
None. (Unless you have input here; always welcomed.)
Thought:
DD3 may need another heart surgery and is in a bunch of health tests now. So we have decided officially that she will NOT take the SSAT. There are two schools on her list that are still requiring SSATs. I have been patiently waiting for schools to change their requirements, which they have been doing steadily.
Question:
Should I reach out now and ask those two schools if they will accept an application without the SSAT? or keep waiting, hoping it will drop as a requirement?
Thought:
DD3 is saying she prefers co-ed. She is willing to visit and keep all-girls on the list, but her thinking is that if a school is all-girls, and doesn’t have any access to horses, then it has two big strikes. I am keeping Westover because the WISE program is probably the top engineering approach I’ve seen in her schools choices, and a smaller school I think would be great for her. Also, Emma Willard – I just love it, but it’s a “maybe” because it’s all-girls and no horses. Still, it’s a top choice in my heart because of culture. However, we cannot visit. argh.
Question:
I guess none really. But our list is so long already so I hate to have a school that she is not excited about. Application is easy, but still need to interview, and attending the zoom open houses, etc… is getting frankly very exhausting. hmmph.
TIA!
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It’s not on your final list, and there’s probably a reason for that- but Loomis checks most of your boxes. They offer equestrian as a club activity in fall and spring, alongside the varsity team option, which you don’t have to be an expert to try out for. I can talk a lot about their riding program which caters to all levels and is very inclusive and fun. They have a brand new makers space, a super cool new Innovation trimester for seniors using said space, and my daughters roommate jumped on the robotics team last year as her afterschool activity as a novice. and loved it. pm me if you want more details!
One other thing- if a school doesn’t offer riding as part of its program, it will be very difficult for her to access any local riding. We dove into this idea fully. Scheduling, transportation, etc all are huge barriers. Unless you have someone local who can arrange this for you and take her in her free time.
Out here in Indiana, Culver has an excellent reputation. I’ve heard nothing but good things about it from the parents of boys and girls who have attended or who have close friends who have.
As always, a very thoughtful approach!
I would reach out to the 2 schools that are asking for the SSAT rather than wait for them to make a decision you want. As time moves on and they start receiving apps with scores, they may find it hard to change their rules. If they think they are going to dig in on this, best to know now.
As for riding, I agree with @waterbug2 . If you are hoping to add this outside what the school offers, it’s going to be tough. The school-run programs are made to fit into a school day. This generally means they are on campus or nearby with transportation and that they are designed to “fit” the time available. When you have acceptances in hand, you can explore better which ones are true fits for a beginning rider.
I believe that Emma Willard has a horse riding elective (during non-covid times). . I recall reading this but am not 100% certain.