<p>Post #33 seems unnecessarily harsh to me. Many of the posters who have shared their thoughts are Jewish, and I would think this question would be very meaningful to them. </p>
<p>I understand the problem that secularizing a religious tradition presents to many people – I feel uncomfortable with the commercialization of Christmas and Easter, which are important religious holy days for my family. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I believe in having a party whenever possible. My family has experienced several difficult losses, and we’ve developed a “party hearty” mentality. You never know what the future holds, so if there’s a chance for fun, good food, and good company, I’m all for it.</p>
<p>Chedva, I both love your parents’ story, and am appalled at the trials they had to endure. I hope that they have thrived after their difficult start.</p>
<p>StickerShock, they actually celebrated only the religious (“real”) wedding; that was their “wedding of choice”. The others were either for convenience or were foisted on them.</p>
<p>NYMom, They did thrive, and were married for 52 years until my father’s death 7 years ago (may his memory be a blessing).</p>
<p>Momof3sons & jym626, we also ran into similar predicaments with both of our older daughter’s bat mitzvahs. We had the service/kiddush in the morning, and then the party that night. In both cases, several kids–along with some adults–figured that it would be fine to just opt out of attending either the service or the party. However, with our next child’s Bat Mitzvah coming up in a few years, we’re probably going to have her service later in the day(combined with Havdallah)and have it go right into the evening celebration. This way, hopefully, both the ceremony and the party will be viewed as one continuous event.</p>
<p>Sometimes when there are a lot of kids the same age, there are conflicting bar/bat mitzvahs, and one must make a choice to go to one’s service and the other’s party.</p>
<p>sjmom–I think poster #33 was quoting a previous harsh post, not agreeing with it.</p>
But if it doesn’t bother any other posters then I’ll bow out. I have a tendency to protect other posters, whether or not they need it! Too many years as a stay at home mom.</p>
<p>I have absolutely no problem with non-religious Jews finding a way to celebrate “coming of age” or whatever else they want to call it. Just don’t call it a secular bar mitzvah. Secular means - non-religious/leaving G-d out of it. Bar Mitzvah means “son of commandments” and means specifically having to do with a covenant with G-d that a 13 year old assumes when he/she turns 13. Therefore, a secular Bar Mitzvah is a contradiction in terms. Just as “Jew for Jesus” is a contradiction.</p>
<p>In regard to attending the celebration without attending the event: I think this comes from ignorance on the part of the person being invited. A bar/bar mitzvah is a huge moment for the young man/woman and their family. The religious service is the reason for the celebration. The invited person that skips the service but attends the party must not be close enough to the family to appreciate the event. Perhaps it is the responsibility of the parents to find a way to educate those invited. When D and S became Bat and Bar Mitzvah, we had an insert in the invitation, poetically explaining the significance of the event. Several people we invited from H’s work and parents of other kids we invited, thanked us for helping them understand what was in store for them. I think many non-Jews think it’s about the party and not the ceremony. This may be more true in parts of the country or smaller towns with a small Jewish population. Here in Southern Cal, most everyone knows what a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is about. We still chose to put the insert in our invitation for those that might not be sure.</p>
<p>Blucroo, I agree that secular Bar Mitzvah is a contradiction in terms. In the Catholic faith, we receive the Sacrament of Confirmation around the same time as the Bar/Bat Mitzvah kids. There is important preparation, usually involving community service & study of the Catechism (certainly not as difficult as the study effort Jewish kids have to put in, but meaningful & significant nonetheless.) A Bishop performs the Sacrament. I can’t imagine a non-practicing Catholic family letting their kid skip all the work & the actual Sacrament, yet then holding a Confirmation party!</p>
<p>The only reason it would be acceptable to skip the church & only attend the party is if seats were limited. Confirmations are celebrated in big groups, so the church fills up quickly.</p>
<p>Well… I have an explanation for why this sometimes does happen. We live in an area with a large Jewish population - my kids were invited to many, many bar and bat mitzvahs, frequently two or even three on a weekend. There can be times when two kids are having a service at the same time but at different temples; one is having an afternoon reception and the other is having an evening affair. In that case, most kids would have to make the choice of which service to attend (undoubtedly it would be the service of the closer friend) , yet they would be able to attend both receptions. Whenever possible, though, and that was most of the time, my kids and their friends were present at the services.</p>
<p>What would a “secular Confirmation” confirm? Pretty amusing, if you think about it. </p>
<p>But I’m still willing to cut the Humanists some slack for a “secular” bar mitzvah, as I have an idea where they’re coming from. While their leaders may be rabbis with clear ideas of what they believe, many of the congregants are simply assimilated, intermarried, or too uneducated Jewishly to realize the contradiction in the terms. And anything they choose to do that is Jewish is ok in my book.</p>
<p>I still do not see a reason for calling a 13-year-old’s PARTY a bar mitzvah, however. Sounds like a way to get presents.</p>
<p>Actually I want to correct what I said. Ethical Culture was founded by the son of a rabbi, but I don’t believe Adler was ever a rabbi. His Dad’s congregation didn’t like him!</p>
<p>Here in Westchester my Jewish friends seem to use Hebrew School and Schul pretty much interchangeably as near as I can make out.</p>
<p>And my experience in both France and Germany is that you have civil wedding on a weekday followed by the religious wedding usually on the weekend.</p>
<p>The rabbi of the Humanistic congregation in our city went to HUC (Reform seminary) but the Reform movement does not accept this congregation as a member congregation. Just beyond the pale.</p>
<p>4Giggles,
Re: your post #46, I beg to differ that the first hour of a service is not “related” to the Bar/Bat Mitzvah. I’m really not sure what you meant. It is the morning service prior to the Torah service. I happen to have twin sons who took turns conducting the three hour long service, including that first hour. I made it clear to our out-of-town guests especially, that it was important to be “relatively” on time since my children would be involved in the service from the beginning.</p>
<p>mommusic-re: post #66, agreed that in our area there are often conflicts with multiple bar/bat mitvahs taking place at the same time. Our experience has been that many kids will choose to go to the shorter service :rolleyes: As for our particular situation where the adults skipped the service, they didn’t have a conflict. They just didn’t want to make the drive twice in one day. And, they were Jewish and presumably knew that the service was important.</p>
<p>momof3sons: My D and S led the entire (Reform) service from beginning to end. They sang, chanted the prayers and read. Only after the Torah Service and D’rasha (sermon) were they allowed to sit and bask in glow of the moment. We have been to Conservative Bar/Bat Mitzvahs that were led by the Rabbi and Cantor with the 13 year old reading Torah and giving the D’rasha. At Orthodox services, the 13 year old does even less. Seems ironic doesn’t it. Our guests were polite and interested enough to be there right from the start. I have been to other services where guests come late and walk in and out. Drives me crazy.</p>
<p>Whaaah. I thought from the title of this thread we had found a way for me, the Episcopalian from birth and atheist by nature, to give my kids bar mitzvahs. Since from those I have attended I have drawn the conclusion that they are the single best ceremony in any culture that I know. And, that includes weddings BTW.</p>