<p>dcmom, that doesn’t really sound like a lot of fun. Jail and stitches? Nah. Not a lot of fun. I wouldn’t be very happy either.</p>
<p>while I am not a believer of letting kids be completely unsupervised on trips while in high school, I am a beleiver in allowing a bit of room to develop their own judgement.
My younger daughter has attended residential camp since she was 8 and frankly, the camp counselors are not much older than the kids. ( I know cause my older daughter was riding staff there) There are lots of opportunities to be relatively independent.
My oldest even had a trip in middle school where the students planned their route and brought their own supplies for winter backpacking trip on the olympic peninsula ( it was not a coincidence that this was called the lord of the flies trip) Teachers hung way back- had their own food and tents and didn’t interfere- even when tents collapsed in the rain and they couldn’t get a fire going.
a lot also depends on personality- once I was 17 I was out of the house, and there had been little my mother could have told me before I left, and even less once I did go.
I have two girls who are relatively level headed although the oldest one is less risk taking and that generally makes up for her lapses in judgement.
THe younger one thrives on what she percieves as controlled risk- snowboarding, surfing,rockclimbing, opportunities to get an adrenaline rush but where she more or less has control.
I think that is what kids are looking for. Something that is exciting and different. It doesn’t have to involve sex or drinking, but they don’t seem to see opportunities for challenge that don’t involve those things.
It is pretty easy to get some liquor and a lot more involved to go get a mountain bike and find some trails to go down. Also some of these activities can involve pain as well as physical effort- most of us aren’t big on pain- myself I would rather have a nice mojito :)</p>
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<p>Completely agree with this sentiment. Gnu, I think curmudgeon’s comments were completely on point in highlighting that granting independence is a continuum. The broader question is actually much more interesting than the narrow drunken-beach-party-or-not issue.</p>
<p>There seems to be an arbitrary line in the sand between pre- and post-graduation which I find strikingly inconsistent. Even though I agree with it.</p>
<p>First of all - quick report, since I posted early in the thread that my 17yo daughter had already gone off with friends for their trip. This was a trip in the “small group of unchaperoned kids, cabin in the mountains” variety - not bacchanal on the beach. 3 girls, 1 guy. Anyway, daughter arrived safely home yesterday at a reasonable hour.</p>
<p>I agree with momsdream’s comment that the kids who want these things are probably the same ones who have been pushing limits, bit by bit, all along. My d’s first unchaperoned trip with friends was over spring break - with 2 friends, going to Disneyland. My d. also traveled overseas with a loosely chaperoned school group for 3 weeks last summer - I say “loosely” because the nature of the trip also meant the kids would have a good deal of unchaperoned free time without direct supervision. We planned accordingly. </p>
<p>I am also wondering whether there is an urban/suburban/rural thing going on. I live in a burb and my son went to high school locally, but my d. attends school in the city. So she has had a daily commute since age 14, having to rely on public transportation to get home when she was younger, and to traverse some very seedy neighborhoods along the way. She definitely has picked up a lot more in the way of street smarts than her brother did at the same age - for him, it was a very big deal when I sent him off by himself for admitted student visits when he was 18. Or at least it was for me – the other barrier is one of birth order. Kid #1 gets more hovering parental protection, needs to push harder for freedoms - but if kid #1 avoids serious trouble, the freedoms come easier for kid #2. (But of course if kid #1 messes up, kid #2 pays with greater restrictions, to avoid repeating the same mistakes). </p>
<p>The situation in Aruba is scary – but I can’t pick up the paper locally without reading of some young woman being the victim of an assault, robbery, rape or homicide. It’s scary when as a parent of a 15 year old who used public transportation every day I read about some other 15 year old being the victim of a shooting on the bus – but that happened at least twice the year my d. was 15. So while I also would be uncomfortable with the bacchanal-type senior trip, I do think that my tolerance of risk has been stretched somewhat through the demands of urban living.</p>
<p>Hi, Kate. You said: " The broader question is actually much more interesting than the narrow drunken-beach-party-or-not issue."</p>
<p>Then why don’t you and curmudgeon and others start a new thread on this topic? There will surely be plenty of responses, including probably my own. That may also be an appropriate forum for some of the parents that have posted here to explain how allowing their child to travel unsupervised with other children during senior week somehow is a major step in their maturing process and also amazingly helps provide the parent with proof that the child is now ready to go off to college.</p>
<p>The topic of this thread is " Seek parent views on “Senior Week” and out of respect to the OP, I am trying to keep my comments limited to the circumstances under which I would or would not allow my children to participate.</p>
<p>In my opinion when they are still in highschool, even if they are over 18, they are still under parental say so. Once they are in college, going on unsupervised trips is a whole different story. But any problems with these trips in highschool can amount to a whole lot of trouble and can even jeopardize the highschool diplomas at some schools if the word gets back. </p>
<p>The summer between highschool and college is a gray no man’s land that has to be crossed one step at a time in my family. Some of my kids took supplemental courses, some slept it away, some partied it away, some worked like fiends, some did all of those things. We have certain house rules that we tried to enforce because these are house rules they should know apply if they are guests elsewhere as well. But alot of confrontations and an unhappy atmosphere here and this kid is no exception this year.</p>
<p>Calmom, I do think it is different for kids in an urban area than in a rural one. In an urban area, kids go into the city on their own all the time and for me to let my kids do that alone in NYC would be a very big deal as they never do it. And I know my younger one is about to LIVE there…my my my…but I guess that is gonna be part of college and so I will live with it. But it is clearly not her way of life here. In a rural area, kids must be DRIVEN and I DRIVE a LOT!!! So, when I think about it, they were always supervised…I drove, they got to their activity and someone was supervising that, etc. Not that much time was all on their own. They went away every summer to camps and programs since very young (no problems) but while that fosters independence, there are still adults present. I found that the big “break” came when they got their license and then all of a sudden, they were truly going places on their own (but had to call). This was a good transition to the bigger time block on their own in college, I thought. But given our area, a kid really has to be driven to and fro until she gets her license and thus, she is not really traveling even for the day or hour all alone. When my older child went across the country and to Europe on supervised trips, they let the kids do some things on their own for a couple hours at a time as long as they were with other kids and my older D loved that because it was rather novel for her. And now, of course, she is completely on her own in college and is just fine. But the region you live in does affect some of this discussion, I agree. </p>
<p>And Momsdream mentioned somewhere about the kids who have and o this or that where she lives and I am familiar with what she is saying cause my friends have friends in other states who do certain things and have certain things but it is very very different than their friends and what is the norm here in rural Vermont. </p>
<p>Just listening to how these kids are all flying here and there for their senior trip…kids for the most part here, would not have the money to do that…some would but a majority would not. Many also work. </p>
<p>So I do appreciate parents like you and Momsdream as having different experiences as you guys live in urban areas. My kids’ friends who are from more urban areas do do some things my kids did not in high school but some of it was a reflection of what is the norm here and just how kids get around here. Ya need wheels here. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I would not let a junior or senior go to such an event. At 2 newspapers that I worked for, reporters covered such senior experiences in different parts of the country. Basically, the students got drunk, did things that were dangerous and had unprotected sex. This included students whose parents apparently had no idea what their kids with high grades and normally good sense were getting into.</p>
<p>This kind of thing allegedly is a tradition, too, in the part of the country where I live. In general, though, parents who IMO have good sense don’t send their kids on those events. There are plenty of other safe ways for young people to stay in touch with their friends. And despite what some students say, not all young people go to things like that or even want to do things like that.</p>
<p>If they must, however, at least they should wait until they are older and presumably have more sense and better driving and life experience. </p>
<p>Incidentally, not just girls, but also guys can be victimized by date rape, assaults, etc. Those high school kids who are drunk and having so-called fun away from parents are prey for predators.</p>
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<p>Gnu, I’m sure the moderators appreciate your help in trying to police this forum and be sensitive to the OP’s needs. Disagree with you absolutely on whether we should avoid exploring the broader issue. The OP’s fundamental question is when to “let go”. The beach party issue is just a trial run for her.</p>
<p>Back to the topic - would it make a difference to readers if this was a post-graduation (say, end of July) party, rather than a pre-graduation party? My experience is that the pre-grad parties take on a life all their own - with a sense of desperation to party, party, party - that seems to accentuate the risky behavior.</p>
<p>I agree that parties closely linked to graduation seem to be more extreme.
I think there is a mind set ( like perhaps with prom) that they have been waiting to do____ all through high school, and now is their chance.
I like how many schools have tightly controlled graduation parties.
My younger daughters urban public high school rents buses and takes the kids somewhere- but there are games dancing and food- it also only costs $30 for everything including graduation and gowns because of fundraising, so everyone can participate.
I think by involving the kids right after graduation, it takes the pressure off and even if they have a party the next week, it isn’t so high stakes that they have to cram everything they wanted to say in high school into one night.
My older daughters school also had an after graduation party, almost the entire class came. They had a cruise and then an overnight- bags were searched, but once they were on the boat they could party.
When a classmate offered a house later on that week, she decided not to attend, she had already had her senior party, and besides she said, there are some people she didn’t want to see drunk. ( however she does now listen to him on the radio on * Morning Edition* )</p>
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Jamimom, I think there is also a different situation in terms of house rules when you have raised a large family. You really have a lot of management responsibilities, plus a need to find and impose a set of rules that will be consistent and fair. I mean - each kid IS different, but you’d get a heck of a fight if you told one kid that he wasn’t allowed to do something that a younger sibling could do because you think younger sibling is more responsible. Ouch! And of course with a houseful of kids it is a lot harder to constantly monitor what each one is doing. </p>
<p>The reason I highlighted the above quote is that I couldn’t possibly accept confrontations + unhappy atmosphere in my home. I am a single parent living alone with my daughter, and I cherish the remaining time I have with her. The dynamic in our house is that if we are fighting there is no one to turn to - and we both get tremendously upset - so we both work to avoid confrontation. That means a lot of communication and compromise, but for me it is worth giving in on a few things if it results in an improved relationship. This doesn’t mean that there aren’t some clear boundaries – but those aren’t areas of disagreement for us. Its the fuzzy areas - the same ones that compel a parent to come on a board like this to ask for opinions - where the compromising tends to take place in our 2-person household.</p>
<p>Hi, Kate:</p>
<p>Not only am I not avoiding the subject, if you will read curmudgeons new thread, you will see that I am an active participant.</p>
<p>Since you are back on the beach party kick, beach party attendance is not a good idea for my children. go ahead and send yours if you like.</p>
<p>Join us on the other thread.</p>
<p>soozivet- You asked how kids pay to fly wherever for senior trips. It varies alot. I flew to Ohio to visit friends, and I did it on a free ticket my dad had that was about to expire. I did call ahead and plan when people would pick me up and take me to and from the airport and people’s houses.</p>
<p>Most of my friends traveling out of the country had parents pay, at least partially. Some of them chose less prestigious colleges with more merit money, so parents are more willing to contribute. One in particular has almost everything paid for, so her parents didn’t mind spending $1500 for her to fly to Spain for a semieducational stay (she loves Spanish art and may do a minor in Spanish). Three of my friends are going unsupervised to China for a month, which I think is an accident waiting to happen (only one speaks Chinese at all). Two of them have parents paying, and the third got a part time job during the school year and agreed with her parents to cover half the cost. This is all in a rather diverse suburb of a big city.</p>
<p>I think the point here is that the OPs son is a junior AND that the location is OC. The fact that he’s a junior would be a “no” for me. Also, that this is an OC trip would cause me to sit with my son, even as an 18 yr old HS grad, and suggest alternatives. OC is a seedy place…trashy motels, too many kids roaming around packed like sardines into tiny, sleazy motels, etc. </p>
<p>As a parent, I would encourage my first-time “alone” trip taker (graduate) to stay in a location where they, as a young adult, would be the exception, not the norm…where there is an abundance of families and the atmosphere is more “resort/relax” than “crazy/senior week”. In any event, I wouldn’t support allowing a Jr to go.</p>
<p>Also consider this.
The majority of posters have stated things like, "my kid, my kids friends etc. are responsible " (read as don’t drink/use drugs etc) and “I know the parents, we know the kids since nursery school”
The point is someones kids ARE partying like crazy. And Everyone thinks its not their kids - so whose kids are they? My son, the rare times I get info from him tells me who is doing the drugs/drinking. I am shocked, because its all the nice polite kids I have known for years -the honor student, the kid who got into the ivies, the athlete, the kid who won all the awards as well as the alternative program kids. I know the moms well, have since kindergartan but no one TELLS the others who is partying. So parents like all of us are in denial about who is doing the partying. Many are even home when the kids are partying so they are supposedly Chaperoned and supervised. But kids are clever.
Of course I think my son is the responsible one too. Maybe I am being deluded. The only reason why I think he is not guility is that his girlfriend is 2 years younger and has a curfew so he dosn’t party as often as others and they go to parties together. Because she is younger, she gets uncomfortable if the kids get too wild. And because of her, he declined the senior weekend trip to the beach (unsupervised) and worked instead. Still, if he wanted to go, I would let him. I won’t be able to check up on him in college.</p>
<p>Just as some colleges are a self selected group- parents who frequent this forum are a self selected group. I know ( really) my daughter didn’t party in high school. How could she? If she wasn’t here she was at her volunteer job, at theatre rehersal or at track practice. The time she did stay overnight at a party where there was drinking, she was so upset about it ,it was evident something had been going on when I saw her a few days later and asked her about it.
Parents don’t always * know* where kids are, often times they are single parents ( not blaming single parents- just saying what I have observed) or other parents who both work over 40 hours and expect the kids to be responsible against great temptation.
When I was in high school, both my parents worked full time, my best friend lived right next door to the high school and we spent a lot of time there.We also spent a lot of time at another friends house whose single mom spent a lot of time at her boyfriends house. Her brother was a drug dealer and while I had my first experiences without his facilitation, it was a house that kids flocked to on weekends.
My parents had never been there even though it was about a block away, they didn’t talk to my friends parents. I talk to the parents of my kids friends, many times they are my friends. I volunteer at the school and I am always available to give rides to kids. Today for instance, my 15 yr old and about 3 of her friends are going to the school they attended last year to have an intervention with the drug and alcohol counselor on behalf of another friend who still attends that school. I am giving them a ride- should be interesting considering that once you are behind the steering wheel, kids think that you go deaf.</p>
<p>Unforturnately, my S did not get the opportunity to do a “senior trip” because his job started the week after graduation (no rest for the weary). But in our area, the traditional senior trips are either boy with dad, or girl with mom. They go in huge groups, either on cruises or to all inclusives at various spots. I have heard that these trips are awesome. The parents tend to go to bed a little earlier than the kids, but the kids still have to go “home” to their parent. The only injury sustained on the boys’ trip that just got back from Mexico was a torn knee ligament (requiring surgery) of an over exuberant dad that happened during a beach volleyball game. Apparently, the dads do NOT like to be beaten by their kids!!! I think this is a great way to connect with your kid before they go away to school, and believe it or not, the kids love the experience too.</p>
<p>My daughter wants to go to senior week and she’s not 18 yet. I told her no. I trust her, but what I’ve read online about the week really frightens me. I wanted to reach a compromise and drive her down for the last 3 days instead of the entire week, but not too sure about that either. Any opinions?</p>
<p>I said no to my D1 who graduated in 09 and have already told S no because he will be going to High School in the fall and I don’t want him to hear about it and get his hopes up and I will tell D2 no when her time comes( she is only in 5th grade). It is only 1 week out of their lives. But what happens there could change their life forever. Nothing good happens at senior week.</p>
<p>haha you parents can’t hold onto your kids forever. everything you think they will do at senior week (drink, drugs, sex…) will happen in college. and considering they just graduated, college is a couple months away</p>