<p>It’s not like it’s impossible to have a polite, high performing kid so why can’t that be the goal? Not being rude doesn’t make someone an unmotivated wimp. Not being rude doesn’t mean not having arguments either. Arguments are healthy and unavoidable. Parents and kids have conflicts- some are not pretty, but I don’t think arguing and expressing one’s thoughts about something is being rude. My D let’s me know when she’s not happy with something I’ve done, but she doesn’t call me names, say things to me just to be mean, curse at me, embarrass me in front of her friends or mine, etc. - all things that I consider rude. She’s too busy to sulk so maybe I’m just lucky there. Maybe growing up with a moody mother helps me deal with her - she can be moody so I just back off - knowing how to pick your battles helps. But, again, I don’t think being in a bad mood justifies rudeness.</p>
<p>Actually, what I tell my D is that she has to learn not to take out her bad moods on those she loves. But I have seen that her high performance is achieved in part by her ability to absorb pressure, and then let it off in the safety of home and loved ones. As she gets older and more able, I am having the talks with her about how she can insulate those she loves from the consequences of the stress she wants to take on.</p>
<p>I have issues with mean. I don’t have so many issues with respect for authority. I separate the two. But I’m a long term liberal Democrat. Honestly, I think that has a big impact on childrearing practices.</p>
<p>“Other Halloween costumes included, Wonder Woman, Diana the Huntress, a leprechaun, the Queen of the Night, a black panther, and, as a teenager, Danger - i.e. wrapped herself in Caution tape. See a theme? One year she was a princess. That phase was quite short-lived.”</p>
<p>Mine was Sailor Moon, leader of the Sailor Scouts. Actually, she was Sailor Moon for years and her friends had to be the lesser scouts like Sailor Venus, Sailor Mars, etc.</p>
<p>Alumother - I’m with you on that. I am a proud bleeding heart liberal and, no surprise, very opinionated. My D is also very opinionated and there is a knack to expressing one’s opinion without being brash or rude. For one thing, you lose your audience when you’re rude and no one wants to lose their audience. I go at it from that perspective. It fit well with my D attending a Quaker school for many years where she really got into conflict resolution. Every morning, at meeting, they were invited to stand up and talk about anything they wanted. I was amazed at the things these kids felt comfortable saying. To this day, she hates it when her friends try to tell her that she shouldn’t feel a certain way.</p>
<p>Dad II - this is maybe psycho analyzing a bit too much. Could it be that your daughter “looks down” on her mother? You seem to be very involved with your daughter (many postings about her in specific - many college issues), therefore she is “Daddy’s princess,” and mother just seem to be in the way? How do you regard your wife - do you dismiss her when she speaks, or do you listen to her when she speaks? Kids will often pick up on the “stronger parent’s” reaction to the other parent, and treat the other parent accordingly. </p>
<p>My father treats my mother like gold. There was/is no way we would think of being rude to my mother. My dad would tolerate rudeness to himself, but not to my mother.</p>
<p>DD II - I remember the struggle you had with the play/SAT II experience. It appears to me as if your backing off really was of great benefit - you seem to have a good relationship with your daughter, and she apparently feels ‘heard’ by you. I wonder if your wife’s attitude is similar to what yours might have been previously and that is why your daughter has become non-communicative with her. Hopefully it reinforces to you the positive outcomes from your willingness to let her spread her wings - she trusts you now. </p>
<p>Question - when you say she will have no conversation with her, do you mean she completely ignores that her mother exists? Or does she just choose not to initiate conversations with her mom? There’s a big difference between the two, and a continuum. </p>
<p>While I understand how innocuous it may sound to comment on someone’s clothing, to a 17-18 year old, hearing those kinds of remarks is basically the same as saying, “I don’t think you’re smart enough to know how to dress yourself properly, taking the weather into consideration” which is a skill that should have been learned 10 years earlier. It’s an insult. If her intent is truly for your daughter’s comfort (as opposed to nagging), then a better remark might be, “it’s really cold out today. The weatherman said it’s only going to get to (whatever) degrees and rain.” Let her then make an adult decision based on given information.</p>
<p>Say what you may about Dr. Phil, but I like one question he poses to parents who make condescending comments to kids, “Do you know how many atta boys (or atta girls) it takes to undo one condescending remark?” I suspect your change in attitude toward her has resulted in a lot of atta girls, leading to an increased respect for you. Good job!</p>
<p>I weighed in early on this thread and want to add now that, like others, while some level of rudeness and coflict is common, extremes should not be tolerated. My children, no matter how angry/disappointed/whatever, know they have to treat me with respect.</p>
<p>Also, I think oldfort brings up an interesting point. I know that my dad was rude to my mom, and this disrespect toward her became a family affair. My dad would not have let my get away with saying to him the things I said to my mom. But dad was always running her down subtly. We’d be watching TV and he’d make disparaging remarks when she wouldn’t get a somewhat-topical joke – things like that.</p>
<p>I hate thinking about how rude I was to her, but whenever I do think about it, I am struck by how my parents tolerated it.</p>
<p>Agree that at some point they have to separate to become their own person and it can be rough or easy depending on how you respond. You and your wife are the adults. They want to become one. We found when we started to practice the golden rule and treat them as you would a friend or how you would want to be treated things got better. You would not nag a friend to wear a coat or do their work. You would not walk into their room or office without permission or acknowledgment. You would expect courtesy from a friend. Unless you think something illegal is going on, the more you can let them separate from you, have some private time and space, and make their own decisions, the smoother this process seems to go. Learned through 4 :). </p>
<p>It’s hard on a Mom to change the way they interact, it represents an end of the role they have had for so many years. Empty nest starts before they actually leave. .</p>
<p>“Kids will often pick up on the “stronger parent’s” reaction to the other parent, and treat the other parent accordingly” Old fort, that is a very important insight, and well stated. A piece of family dynamics that I certainly didnt’ know when I started raising kids. I now see that I come from multiple generations of moms being subtly to overtly ridiculed. I grew up with this attitude toward my mom, and has taken me years to see how wonderful she is, if self effacing. My kids too have grown up with this ridicule towards me, and as my kids have grown up, they have had more respect for me as they see me less through their dad’s eyes rather than their own. </p>
<p>Not saying that this is your attitude, DAD II, though perhaps something to look at. My guess is that some cultural issues may be playing into your dilemma. Best wishes to all of you, as lack of family harmony can be quite dispiriting.</p>
<p>Like most of you, my D and I have gone through periods where D was rude and/or wouldn’t communicate with me. I found that when I emailed her, she was much more likely to listen to me and to respond politely. </p>
<p>I never know when she is going to be in one of those moods, but when she is, anything I say is taken as criticism, even compliments. It got to the point last fall where we were barely talking, and I hated that. I ended up sending her an email asking her if everything was ok, and explaining why her behavior was unacceptable. She apologized and told me she was just under a lot of stress. I told her that I understood she was under stress, but that she had to learn how to deal with it and not take it out on her family, especially on me. I also told her that while I was happy to help her out by driving her places, running her errands, doing her laundry, etc., I would not continue to do those things for her if she wasn’t willing to be civil. She promised to work on it, and she really has. She still has her moments, but things have improved greatly.</p>
<p>DadII, let me throw in my 2 cents. I’ve been dealing with Ds’ estrogen spikes for a loooong time. It will get better when your D goes off to college; by the time they are 20, they eventually grow out of this moodiness.</p>
<p>The book I found somewhat helpful was “I’m not mad, I just hate you!”:</p>
<p>[Barnes & Noble.com</a> - Books: I’m Not Mad, I Just Hate You!, by Roni Cohen-Sandler, Paperback](<a href=“Online Bookstore: Books, NOOK ebooks, Music, Movies & Toys | Barnes & Noble®”>Online Bookstore: Books, NOOK ebooks, Music, Movies & Toys | Barnes & Noble®)</p>
<p>Another good one that will give some insight into teenage way of thinking is “Yes, your teen is crazy” by Michael Bradley.</p>
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<p>Hopefully. </p>
<p>At the same time, many colleges’ student health centers are overwhelmed by requests to seek help with mental health.</p>
<p>I know among my friends, many young women who are still battling with their moms in their twenties and thirties.</p>
<p>“I’ve been dealing with Ds’ estrogen spikes for a loooong time.”</p>
<p>Not sure I like that, but whatev…</p>
<p>I find the email thing adds a little buffer and reaction time too.</p>
<p>The more things change –
– Mark Twain</p>
<p>Shrinkwrap - you’re right about the email thing adding a little buffer and reaction time - still, even that doesn’t always work for me…lol.</p>
<p>Got to ask this and will probably get flamed for it – is the op’s daughter pretty? If so, then she’s dealing not just with her daughter but the world’s reaction to her daughter. It’s very tricky. No answers here. But I would say that it’s actually a good sign in a way that she gives you hell - at least you’re on her radar screen. I know moms of teenage girls who simply don’t figure in their child’s life at this point. Engaging at all – even if it’s mean – tells you that you still figure in her life.</p>