Seeking input on high target/reach colleges for business (finance)

I am seeking community input to attempt to channel S24’s energy into RD applications over the next 10 days. High stats (one B over past 4 years, 11 AP/Honors, strong rigor - AP Physics C, AP Calc BC etc.), SAT 1550+, NMSF, good EC’s w/leadership, varsity/club sports, competitive well known public high school, overall strong applicant with a regular high school experience (so no crazy national, international awards
Interested in finance (finance, econ, business oriented schools preferred).

Admitted to Fordham with a full tuition scholarship (which is fantastic) and a few other schools with some merit. Fordham @full tuition is super appealing.
Applied EA to Michigan Ross, USC and some UC’s (not EA but RD for the UC’s).
We are trying to spend the next 10 days applying to reaches (Penn and a few Ivys) but I looking for some other non Ivy reaches that are awesome for a person interested in finance.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. FYI - he is not interested in Indiana Kelley & UT Austin.

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NYU Stern, SMU Cox, Carnegie Mellon Tepper, Lehigh College of Business.

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Thanks, Tepper was on my mind, Stern is out because he wants at least some sort of a campus environment. Need to look into SMU Cox and Lehigh and weigh if either would be better than Fordham Gabelli with a full tuition scholarship

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UCs won’t see the score.

If Fordham is appealing, would Tulsa (full ride) or Alabama Culverhouse (5 years tuition so grad school and 4 years free housing be appealing?).

What is the goal - is it corporate finance or IB, etc. Only a few UCs have business.

What does he want in a school - seems like at least civilization.

SMU is a great suggestion. I’d add TCU Neeley - does very well career wise.

The question is - with Fordham for free, is he going to choose USC (could come with money) or Michigan - if out of state, really expensive as would be the UCs?

If that’s the case, then we have to find inexpensive, etc.

If IB, I can see BC Carroll, William & Mary Mason (more isolated than what you’ve chosen), Babson, Emory Goizueta, Ohio State Fisher, and WUSTL Olin - but honestly, if none are going to appeal over Fordham, then what is the point.

Any school named would be hard to choose over tuition free Fordham (you mentioned the appeal) - so it’s really - what are you looking for? Is it money, is it something else?

Good luck.

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The answer to this is dependent on:

  1. The value or money to you - saving $240K+ at Michigan - is a huge huge thing - even if you want IB - and if this is the case, then you can only really look at other NMF schools (and yes, you can get to IB from them) but given Fordham’s location, it will be easier. Odd though that Fordham isn’t on IB target lists.

  2. What type of finance you seek - if it’s working in corporate finance, where you go will matter far less.

Nice problem to have…but you are talking about real dollar savings here - and there are no guarantees to certain professions simply by going to certain schools - although some give you a much better chance.

Congrats

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Thanks and great points. His goal right now is more investment management (like Fidelity Fund Manager) or IB but this can change quickly and these aspirations are harder to realize from schools with percieved lower “brand” value. That said, my impression is that it is easier from Fordham relative to TCU.

You mentioned some schools that were on my mind and the question is whether WashU St Louis or Emory at full price is worth it over ful tuition at Fordham, I think not but am looking for opinions.
Current parent thinking is Ross, Haas, Marshall over Fordham but it is not a slam dunk yes especially Ross since we are OOS. Haas is in-state and Marshall has a tuition break for NMSF if admitted. However, I fully understand that Ross, Haas, Marshall are far reaches comparable to any Ivy (even thougg Ivy’s do not have a major in business and he would likely apply as econ, econ-math-stats)

@viki9 University of Virginia UVa 's McIntire School of Commerce has a great finance program, but it is not direct admit. UVa admits to College of Arts & Sciences and after 2 years of prerequisites, undergraduates apply to McIntire School of Commerce. Process for High School Students - B.S. in Commerce | UVA Out of state tuition is steep.

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I think that if you are looking at value, I’d personally choose a Fordham or Bama Culverhouse (yes, they’re at Goldman and other IBs) over Michigan, etc.

Investment management has people from all schools and stripes and there are so many firms all over - tons.

Just look at the bios of some fund managers and analysts.

Looking at mutual funds, I see foreign (a trend that will happen more and more). At Fidelity, I see everything from Wharton to Wisconsin to Hobart & William Smith.

At Vanguard, you have Arcadia U with a Villanova MBA (you’ll see MBA in many of these), Shippensburg, American U.

T Rowe Price - W Washington U (with MBA at Dartmouth), St. Marys of Maryland, Hillsdale

My daughter’s BF is at U of Denver Daniels School and he’s on the team that manages a chunk of the portfolio. I know Culverhouse Alabama has the same (and it’s arguably the best NMF).

I think - for mutual fund management or private equity management - there are soooooooo many operations and as I show above - you’ll have some MBAs from top or not top schools (I saw a Louisville), you’ll have CFAs, and you’ll have schools that run the gamut - even at your largest firms (but there’s so many opportunities).

I was visiting a client of my client yesterday (I call on car dealers) - and this operation was being visited by a private equity. I was interested in the person I met who was on the team looking to fund - he was a Cornell Engineer with Harvard MBA. But I was looking at the profiles of the people at the company - and on the investment team - you had USC, Wesleyan, CUNY Baruch, Gtown, Union, McGill, TCU, Nebraska, Fordham, and more. This is a firm from Greenwich, CT.

Other firms run the gamut - from Colorado to any big 10, SEC schools, etc.

I think in investment management and I’m not saying the better names don’t do better - but are they worth hundreds of thousands of dollars more? That’s up to you - but I can’t imagine.

If it were me and that was the goal, I’d pursue an NMF school and bust tail - reaching out and networking etc. It’s the internet world today - and my daughter’s BF worked in healthcare equity last summer - and had no issue getting an internship.

You have a great problem - brilliant kid, going to get into fantastic schools…but on the flipside could also potentially save you $250K or even $360K - and you just don’t know which will work. Any could work - but yes, some may require more work.

One thing to look at - most these folks (not all) have MBAs or CFAs so where they go undergrad may not be as impactful as where they go grad - and they’ll be working a few years first before they go to an MBA program - and where you go undergrad will have little impact on where you go MBA - assuming one can get a solid role from anywhere. Your GMAT and work experience will determine where you go.

It seems like you’re a value guy - so i’m not sure more names would be of help here - unless they do better financially…especially if you’re going to lean heavily into Fordham. But if you would be willing to spend $80-90K a year, then of course, it’s your right to add others.

A school that might be an in between ($50K-ish) would be - Ga Tech.

But I’m not sure it provides any more value than anywhere else.

In fact, one could argue, by being at a less competitive school, you’d have more access to getting on an investment team (managing a fund the school’s give). My daughter’s BF told me - all the interviewers wanted to talk about that.

Best of luck to you whatever way your son goes.

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Cornell has - and Dartmouth has a bridge program - but be careful - math/econ, etc. are not business.

If he wants to study finance, then go to a school where one can do so. If he wants to study econ, then do that.

Note - there’s a ton of LACs too - from elite to non-elite - that are placing folks in investment management…so that’s a fine route - and not even having to do econ - you can major in things from poli sci to art history, etc. - but Econ is a social science…so it’s not finance.

Ultimately a student should study their interest - and Econ and Finance aren’t necessarily substitutional.

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Boston College
U of Miami
U of Rochester
Carnegie Mellon
UVA
UWisconsin
Villanova
WUSTL
Wake Forest
Emory
Boston University
Lehigh

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I am blown away by your comprehensive and thoughful response, thank you so much and I would hope that the CC admins tag this treasured response.

He is interested more in finance at this stage though I don’t want to hang my hat on that, most 17-18 year olds do not (and probably should not) have such a narrow focus, investment management in his case.

Yes, you read it, I am a value guy and my son is as well. Talking through with it with him an hour ago and he said “why would I want to apply to WashU or Wisconsin when I have zero tuition at Fordham”.

Indeed, we are lucky, he only wants to apply to Penn Wharton and Yale now so maybe thats what will happen and then cross the next bridge. Need to dig into Bama more, I heard they do not offer the NMF full ride anymore.

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Most will disagree with me and say go to target schools. But Fund Management - first off there’s tons of funds- I invest in the public shares of Invesco and Hennessy. There’s a zillion mutual funds out there- and they’re all over.

I would agree - most 17/18 year olds don’t know - but you rarely hear fund management vs. Investment Banking - so that’s a nice change.

Kids don’t get the monetary aspect - and they are blown away by pedigree…as are many parents. I do think - having real experience and many schools provide this today - is a great thing. But even getting on those investment teams isn’t easy. My daughter’s BF had to go through a process to get on it at his school.

I do have a value bias.

My son was set to go to Purdue for engineering - and it was affordable as he had $10K merit and it’s affordable full price. But he chose to go to Alabama after visiting campus and seeing he’d get his own dorm room and shared bath. I disagreed - that pedigree thing - and he didn’t care. He also told me it was ridiculous he wouldn’t do as well and he’s right as he’s working with Purdue/Michigan and other top school grads and they make the same.

My daughter - she’s in a non-money making job - and we gave her a $50K budget (we are full pay) - so she didn’t apply anywhere that didn’t offer merit - so the night of our Georgetown tour, when we learned of such a thing, it and others came off the list. In the case of say Emory Goizueta, I think you’re too late for merit…

She did get into schools that were over $50K but had the possibility of merit - so schools like Maryland (another good one for your son but it’s too late to apply) and Washington & Lee - those schools came off.

While she had many “higher ranked” to choose from - Florida, UGA Honors, U of SC Honors, etc. she chose College of Charleston and she’s had two internships so far, including at a top think tank in DC this fall. Prior, they had hired from top schools + GW but somehow she got in…persistence matters!! Hustling kids will find a way.

So - so far so good.

So others think I’m wrong and it’s their right and some come from industry whereas I don’t - but I can find folks from so many schools in these IB or fund manager jobs.

Sure, they might not be as plentiful as the targets and all that - but the cost savings is gigantic.

So - for some, they’re ok spending $350K. I personally wasn’t and it doesn’t sound like you are. Stroking a large check 2x a year would kill me. Fortunately, my daughter chose a school that gave her a scholarship after accepting and she has free tuition…just dumb luck…but I’m so appreciative.

In the end, you have to live within your comfort.

So the tradeoff to the pedigree might be having to work harder…but it is an online world today, with jobs found via handshake, indeed, linkedin, etc.

I personally think organizations like this (and many schools have) are fantastic because kids get real life experience. You might check others to see if they have and the difficulty of joining the team. In the end, and as I saw with my son after his internships…experience begets experience…you simply need that first opportunity and then you’re off and running.

I put the national merit finalist offer down as well from Bama. UTD, Tulsa (full ride), U Maine and others have great deals too…and you found the one at Fordham already!! They do offer NMF - I think what you heard about was the National Minority Scholarships, etc. I think because of the Supreme Court ruling schools have to adjust…and maybe can’t offer based on ethnicity. They are the leader in NMF by volume but Tulsa is far the leader per capita (25%) which is crazy - so a quarter of students get a free ride.

The great news is your son has accomplished so much - and whether he ends up at Fordham, SC, Berkley, Michigan…wherever…he’s earned all these great things coming his way.

  • Value of tuition for up to five years or 10 semesters for degree-seeking undergraduate and graduate or law studies
  • Four years of undergraduate on-campus housing at regular room rate* (based on assignment by Housing and Residential Communities)
  • $3,500 per year undergraduate supplemental scholarship for four years**
  • $2,000 one-time allowance for use in research or international study (after completing one year of study at UA)
  • $500 per year Super Store book scholarship for four years

I’m sure you’ll get other perspectives…mine is typically counter and that’s ok - this way you have lots to think about.

Best of luck.

PPS - one other thought, you might ask each school for a list of their outcomes by job type. Some will have on line…some you’ll have to reach out to.

Culverhouse Investment Management Group - My SOURCE (ua.edu)

Here’s the bios of a fund group - I just looked at as I own stock in the company (great dividend, especially now because it’s a bad stock.) They are in California.

Here are the colleges from those managing investments with the link below. So your son can be fine from anywhere - but it’s likely a BA/BS won’t be enough.

Neil received a BBA in Business Administration from the University of San Diego.

Ryan received a BA from Oberlin College, and he is a CFA charterholder and a member of both the CFA Society Boston and the CFA Society North Carolina.

Dave received a BA in Economics from St. Lawrence University and an MBA from Rochester Institute of Technology.

Josh received a BBA in Finance from Emory University and an MBA from Vanderbilt University. He is a CAIA charterholder and member of the CFA Society North Carolina and the Chartered Financial Analyst Institute.

Ben received a BA in Economics from Johns Hopkins University and an MBA in Finance from the University of Texas at Austin. He is a CFA charterholder and member of the Chartered Financial Analyst Institute.

David received a BS in Commerce from the University of Virginia and an MBA from Duke University, and he is a CFA charterholder and member of the CFA Society of Washington, DC.

Brian received a BS in Commerce from the University of Virginia, and he is a CFA charterholder and member of the CFA Society of Washington, DC.

Ira received a BS in Finance and Accounting and a BA in Economics from the University of Maryland, and he is a CFA charterholder and member of the CFA Society of Washington, DC.

Steve received a BA in Economics from Virginia Military Institute and an MBA from the University of Richmond, and he is a CFA charterholder and member of the Richmond Society of Financial Analysts.

Mark received a BS in Accounting from Liberty University and an MBA from the University of Notre Dame, and he is a CFA charterholder and member of the CFA Society of Philadelphia. Mark is also a Certified Public Accountant.

Brian received a BBA in Finance from the University of Kentucky and an MBA from the Kelley School of Business at Indiana University, and he is a CFA charterholder and a member of the CFA Society of Louisville.

Sam received a BA in Economics and Philosophy from the College of the Holy Cross and an MBA from the Darden School of Business at the University of Virginia, and he is a CFA charter holder and member of the CFA Society Virginia.

Gary received a BA from Bowling Green State University and an MBA from the University of Dayton, and he is a CFA charterholder and member of the Kansas City CFA Society and the Chartered Financial Analyst Institute.

Peter received a BS from the University of Kansas and an MBA from Indiana University, and he is a CFA charterholder and member of the Kansas City CFA Society and the Chartered Financial Analyst Institute.

Bill received a B.A. from Connecticut College, is a board member of Ceres, and guest lectured at Columbia, Harvard, HBS, MIT, Sloan, and Vanderbilt.

Meet our team. | Hennessy Funds

Meet our team. | Hennessy Funds

Congratulations on your kids achievements and Fordham is a very strong option that does a great job placing kids in finance roles, particularly in NYC.

So strong that I agree with your approach and would either only shoot very high (think Wharton or Yale) or be very excited and happy with Fordham tuition free. If you are determined to add a few ”non Ivy reaches” you could consider some of the elite LACs like Williams, Amherst or a University Chicago or Duke that also place very well on Wall Street. Per your request these are “non Ivy reaches that are awesome for finance” that speaking very generally may offer advantages over Fordham in finance.

Not sure why you would consider Bama which is far down market in relative terms from a finance career perspective when you have Fordham in hand?

Once again congratulations to your son.

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@Viki9, @Catcherinthetoast has decades of experience in this industry and is currently a CEO at a bank. I would place a lot of weight on his advice.

Congratulations to your son on his excellent acceptance. And best wishes in the RD round.

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Fordham Gabelli is in Lincoln Center, not the Bronx Campus, I thought… no real campus on Lincoln Center either (unless you are counting Central Park, which is a VERY nice campus). Full tuition hard to beat in value though.

Are you sure about that…

https://www.fordham.edu/gabelli-school-of-business/academic-programs-and-admissions/undergraduate-programs/which-campus/rose-hill/#:~:text=Fordham’s%20campus%20at%20Rose%20Hill,plus%20excellent%20proximity%20to%20Manhattan.

“ Fordham’s campus at Rose Hill is where most Gabelli School students pursue their business degrees. Rose Hill offers the best of two worlds: a traditional college campus that feels like an oasis from the city, plus excellent proximity to Manhattan. It takes only 20 minutes to get from Rose Hill to midtown on the Metro-North train.”

I stand corrected; I was only going by the sign in front of the Lincoln Center building. I see students have a choice of campus when applying based on their major within the business school.

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Didn’t mean to be abrupt. I honestly didn’t know for sure.

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I hope this poster will clarify. They seem to have a full ride sure thing in NYC (Fordham) which has the desired areas of interest for their student already in the accepted column! Congratulations!!. If they are looking for additional free rides, I hope they clarify this. This is not what I read here.

I believe this poster is trying now to help their student find some reach schools which have the programs their student desires, and perhaps in locations that would be good for the student.

@Viki9 are you looking for other large merit awards schools, or are you looking for reaches? Please clarify.

I will add, some of your son’s pending decisions could be good also.

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