My junior is taking AP Calc BC and AP Stats this year, which maxes him out his school, so he will soon need to apply for a math dual enrollment course for senior year. He will likely major in applied math and is interested in highly selective schools. My spouse and I and our older kid are all humanities people, so we have no insight into the right course progression (or really anything else math-related), and his school counselor will not have a lot of insight; he can ask his math teachers for their advice, but I’d welcome guidance from folks who have been through this with their own kids or have other useful insight.
For context, our dual enrollment offerings are at local universities, with only a few offering DE students the level of math he’ll need; two are local commuter schools where the courses would be online, and the other two are national universities, including a top 25, where he would take classes in-person.
For further context, he’s an extremely strong math student and is doing very well in all of his classes this year (and has a 4.0uw so far in HS). He is always one of the top couple of students in any math class he’s in. I feel pretty confident in his ability to succeed in a rigorous college-level course.
So the question is, which course should he take? And where?
My understanding is that multivariable calculus and linear algebra are the options to pursue after Calc BC. Is one “better” than the other”? Is there a recommended progression? If he decides to do DE in the fall only (and so will take only one or the other), which should he choose? Does the fact that he might be taking the courses at a top 25 school (the more convenient in-person option) change anything? I think his preference will be to take classes in-person, if scheduling works out, but is there any reason not to go this route?
Anything we’re not considering and should be?
Thank you!
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Has he also maxed out on science? He won’t want a year without anything Mathy, but AP physics should scratch that itch if he hasn’t taken it yet…
Yes, maxing out there, too. Taking AP Physics C Mechanics this year and will take E&M next year.
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The sequence for my daughter was multivariable calc (calc III) first, and then either linear algebra or differential equations next.
My thought would be if the scheduling works out to do it in person too but make sure your son understands the exam schedule before committing. Usually exams are NOT during class time so he needs to make sure it doesn’t conflict with anything else he has going on.
And then be aware that he’ll need separate transcripts for those classes/grades that will need to be submitted where he matriculates, unless they are on his high school transcript as DE courses.
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Take Multivariable or Linear Algebra or both at the T25 if possible. Either/or is fine, or find out which one is “first” at that institution and take in that order. My super mathy kid was lucky in that her HS offered MVC and LA taught by a phD at the high school based on the local university(T60 ish) syllabus. The order was LA then MVC based on how it was designed. While it was a great opportunity, this university-course based syllabus ended up covering half maybe less per semester than what was covered in each of the semesters at UPenn (she looked at the syllabus in advance and did not attempt to place out). Penn incorporates DiffEq in the MVC/LA semesters, but still was surprising a decently ranked university-based syllabus went much slower than a top school. A public HS our area does true “dual enrollment” for LA and MVC at the T60ish, and those parents have also noted how slow the pace was compared to their eventual top college. I say all this to caution that the T25 could be a brisk pace change from his high school! Good luck!
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I agree with mom of boiler MV would be the first choice. If he can take something second semester too then either LA or DiffyEQ. If he has a full load at his HS senior year, it might be hard to take an in-person class at one of the universities, depending on how close they are and how accessible parking is.
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Thank you. This is something I have some concern about, although I think he would welcome the challenge. He has had excellent math teachers, including his Calc BC teacher, who seems to move quickly and expect a lot. So my hope is that he’s up to it.
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Thanks. It’s typical for seniors at his school to take 5ish classes (usually major subjects only, as they’ve completed their elective requirements), which leaves them with a couple of free periods, so the schedule flexibility should be there.
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I think Diff Eq or Multi would be great. But if he likes theoretical math, he could also do Number Theory which a lot of mathy kids adore. Even better, take two classes to get a “full year” of college math. Also, another option would be to do an online class. I have been out of the advanced math classes for a bit, but Art of Problem Solving might have some good ones.
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I would do this first.
Creat mini wish list of colleges. If these colleges are public, they will have public transfer databases. See what classes transfer between a potential school and the college/school where your kid will take classes in HS.
My DD took in local CC Multivariable Calculus, Linear Algebra in HS. All transfered to GaTech (but GaTech was a target school and I checked all options ahead of time.) She was engineering major and never took any math at Gatech (she completed all math requirements in HS.)
We even went a step further…We focused on DE in senior year and decided not to enroll in some magnet school classes… School was furious but it saved us a lot of money in the longs run since she was OOS student eventually.
Word of caution. This board is not friendly to DE :).
Many private schools do not like DE, since that means student can potentially graduate earlier and less tuition for them. So they tend not to transfer credits.
Also some privates may treat a kid with DE classes as a “transfer” if there are a lot of DE credits and not to provide scholarships.
If you do DE just to beef up “resume”, any school will love DE credits. If you need it to save money (our case), then use “our” approach.
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Agree that many private schools will not give credit for DE courses. But, many will count DE courses as rigorous (at the same level of rigor as AP and IB courses) during the admissions process. I am not aware of any colleges that treat a student who took DE courses during HS as a transfer student, rather than a first year applicant.
Thank you!
Senior year math is the only DE he’s pursuing; if he could take MVC or Linear Algebra at his school, he would. So our primary goals are challenge/rigor and admissions/resume.
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I remember that Union College definitely said it to one of my daughtes. "If you want trasfer your credit, we will treat you as transfer for scholarships. " We liked Union, but crossed it from the list because of that.
If I recall correctly there was some issue at Case with DE classes.
It is school by school.
We had funny experience with youngest…
She took AP Chem during Covid in 10th grade. HS teacher was great, but did not prepare students to unusual format of AP exam during Covid. So DD got 3. So she went and took Chem 1 as DE at CC. Got an easy A and took national exam. She attended Rhodes College. Rhodes has ridiculous policy that all students with AP or DE have to take intro Chem, because it is difficult. So DD slept through that 3rd round of the same class that had literally identical national exam at the end… She is Chem major now 
.
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My kid’s at UMich and DE credit is much stronger here than AP credit. DE credit allows for priority status in class enrollment. AP doesn’t help at all with better enrollment priority. Finally some of the intro math classes are very difficult and uneven in teaching. There’s a big group taking math at the local Michigan CC in Ann Arbor.
UMich has an easy to use website to see if and how all credits transfer.
UMich has a very strong program for honors math. Many students call the honors math track a life-changing, positive experience but you had better love proofs. Of course UMich offers a lot of applied math options in finance, operations, biology and statistics. I’d give it a good look if it’s not too expensive OOS.
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After single variable calculus (calculus BC), common semester long courses that follow (often in any order) are, with applicable college majors:
- multivariable calculus: M, S, P, C, Eng, Econ
- linear algebra: M, S, P, C, Eng, CS, Econ
- differential equations: M, S, P, C, Eng, Econ
- discrete math: M, CS
- calculus-based statistics: S, CS, Econ
M = math, S = statistics, P = physics, C = chemistry, Eng = engineering (including engineering-based computer science), CS = computer science (liberal arts based), Econ = economics for pre-PhD or quant finance.
Note that some math departments combine linear algebra and differential equations into one course, so if transfer subject credit is desired, it is better to complete both rather than just one.
Taking in-person college courses will give him a chance to experience how college courses are run differently from high school courses, so that he will be more ready when he enters college as a college frosh (many college frosh have difficulty making this adjustment while simultaneously making many other adjustments from high school to college). Taking an online course would mainly be an advantage of this nature if he expects to take significant amounts of online courses while in college.
One other thing: he may want to try the calculus 1 and calculus 2 final exams from the college he will be taking the more advanced math courses at, to verify that he knows the prerequisite material from the college’s point of view.
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What colleges consider applicants to be transfer applicants if all of their college course work was done while in high school (as opposed to after leaving high school)?
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Read my post above about our experience with Union and Case.
Yes! U of M is very high on his list. Thanks for this insight on honors math—we will definitely check it out.
Neither of those schools considers students who take DE courses in HS as transfer applicants…they apply as first year applicants. Totally separate from dispensing scholarship $, which is Union’s prerogative to do if a given student gets credit for AP/IB/DE (agree with you that in general private schools want students to spend 4 years there.)