Seeking some opinions of other parents about certain rules

zkevin · March 27, 2007, 8:49pm

Okay, so recently, I’ve been getting extremely annoyed with the new guidelines/rules my parents have set down for me/my twin brother.

Basically, the rules are that I must start going to bed at 10:30 PM (so, in other words, get off computer/tv, start taking shower, brushing teeth, etc.). And I must be in bed (lights off) by 11:00 PM sharp. No exceptions will be made, unless it’s for homework or part-time job schedule. This applies for Sunday through Thursday.

The second rule is that on Friday and Saturday I’m allowed to choose one day where I must be in bed (lights off) at 11:30. So in other words, I’d have to be home between 11:00 and 11:30 on the day I choose to go to bed at 11:30. The other day, I must be in bed (lights off) at 11:00, just like on on Sunday through Thursday. Exceptions will be made, however, exceptions don’t happen often at all. According to my parents, every once in awhile, they may let me stay out slightly later then 11:30 (say, I want to watch a 1 hour 30 minute movie, but it starts at 10:00, so I wouldn’t be able to be “in bed, lights off” by 11:30). Then again, this occurs almost never.

These two rules were originally agreed upon due to the fact I was arguing to be allowed to sleepover at other people’s houses for b-day parties, etc. In addition to the two above rules, I also have to sleep (in bed, lights off) at 9:30 the day after the sleepover. My parents know for a fact, it’s not often I have a sleepover I wish to attend (maybe once a month or two). My parents + me and my brother both agreed upon all of the above rules.

Now it’s been about one or two months since these rules were set in place. I’m already furious over agreeing to these rules in the first place. I’m hoping that me + my parents can agree to take away all these rules regarding curfew times.

To begin with, both me and my parents know that I won’t be going out on Sunday through Thursday in the first place. My arguments for removal of rule #1:

<li> Although I will probably be going to bed later then 11, it’s not like it’s a big difference in the time I sleep. Almost every single day I’m in bed by 11, but I won’t be able to actually fall asleep till around the 1 AM timemark. Usually I just sit in my bed and use my cell phone (I do have internet on it…) till I can sleep. So it’s not like I’m losing sleep or anything if we did take away the first rule. I’d still be “asleep” for relatively the same amount of time. </li>
</ol>

However, the removal of the second rule would probably change up quite a bit of things, and that’s mostly what I’m aiming to change. I’m tired and sick of having to be home at like 11 PM so I can be in bed and asleep by 11:30 on the one day I choose to sleep later. My arguments for removal of #2 include:

<li>I’d hate to bring in other people into the discussion. But none of my friends have a curfew earlier then 12. And most of them don’t even have a curfew. If the second rule was taken out, I’d probably get less sleep on Friday/Saturday, but I’m already sleeping way more on Friday/Saturday then I do on Sunday through Thursday, since I can sleep in on Friday and Saturday while I have to get up at like 6 on Mon-Fri. </li>
<li>Secondly, it’s not like I always go out, and will be staying out past 12 in the first place, due to the fact that some of my friends still have curfews at 12, so alot of the activities we plan end around 12, so I won’t be home that much later anyways.</li>
</ol>

Rule #…4? I think. My parents turn off the internet at 10:30 PM everyday. Doesn’t matter if I need the internet for homework or not. Their philosophy is that I won’t ever have so much homework that needs internet that I need it from like 6-10:30. And any homework I do have that requires internet, I should do it first. They argue, that if they remove the internet, I’ll just play games/facebook/AIM till really late at night every single day, and I’ll never get any homework. Doing my best to present everything in a fair light, I DO happen to have these things happen when my parents happen to forget to turn off the internet (like…once a month?). They use that to argue that is what will happen if they remove it. My argument is that:

<li>Half the reason why I do stay up late sometimes (like…till 1 AM?) when they do leave the internet on by accident is because I know for a fact that it will only happen this one time, and I should take advantage of my luck. However, if it’s always on, then I will see no reason to do so every single day…</li>
<li>Knowing that I only have internet until 10:30 makes me procrastinate on my homework a little bit too. I end up finishing my homework that requires internet first, then using facebook/AIM/email, etc. until the internet is pulled out at 10:30, then I go upstairs, and pretend to sleep, then after my parents fall asleep, I do the homework that I didn’t already do. If I did have the internet the entire day, then I wouldn’t have to worry about using the internet in between a certain timeframe, and pushing other things that don’t need internet till after 10:30. </li>
</ol>

Additional argument for all the rules:

I’m going to college in like…half a year, and my parents won’t be able to control me there. I mean, after all, wouldn’t it be best to let me screw up my grades/life right now, when it doesn’t really matter at all, as opposed to letting me learn to control myself once college starts? I mean, I’m a second semester senior, and I already know where I’m going, and it’s not like I’m going to pull C’s/D’s and get my admission rescinded. Even if my grades start to decline significantly, they could always put these rules back in place too.

I’m curious to see what other parents have to say about this. Many of my arguments have been tried and tried again, but my parents refuse to listen to them, or claim they are bad arguments. Additionally, any advice to convince my parents to remove these rules would be great. Thanks in advance.

PS. Yes, I do realize that it turned out to be a TON longer then I expected. Guess I’m more frustrated then I originally even though… hehe.

jmmom · March 27, 2007, 8:55pm

I didn’t read every detail of your post. However, I didn’t see something that seems a critical piece of information. These are “new guidelines/rules.” What precipitated this change in rules?

jimbob1225 · March 27, 2007, 9:03pm

How old are you?

Is it really worth fighting over?

hsmomstef · March 27, 2007, 9:27pm

a few comments –

“My parents and I” not “me and my parents” (you just wrote it so many times I had to correct it).

Why the new rules? What were the old rules?

to me, it sounds like too many rules set down by the parent and too little self-discipline. I have two boys, ages 13 and 17. We don’t have any rules like your parents – no curfew, no internet restrictions, nothing.

our only rules are that education, family and commitments come before fun. What that means is that my kids ALWAYS tell me where they are going, when they will be back and how they can be reached. they know what their commitments are (whether cleaning house, scouts or something else) so the nights they stay out late are few and far between.

I expect my kids to understand the reason that it is a bad idea to stay out until midnight every Friday and Saturday and why text messaging and reading facebook on the internet until 1 am is also a bad idea. Since I don’t set the rules, the only ones they cheat when they do that is themselves.

consider following the rules your parents set – and next school year, ask them if you can start the school year by setting and following your own rules. Make sure you explain what your rules are and why you picked them.

TrinSF · March 27, 2007, 9:35pm

So, I’m a parent who recently “reined in” my senior at the beginning of March, with new rules, less Internet, and a earlier bedtime. I did it because “Senioritis” seemed to have struck and his grades had dropped. He was also not getting enough sleep, and it was making him a bit difficult to be around. Oh, then there were the girls… but anyway, the deal, I basically feel like he can suck it up and deal for the next 4-6 months. It’s not like he’s trapped forever. I chose to set the new restrictions because I was seriously concerned that he was jeopardizing his college future by letting his grades slip into the might-be-rescinded range.

My son has said a lot of the same things, and my response has been basically, “Tough.” The thing is, I think of it as in part my job to not let him frick up right now. To me, it would be abdicating my responsibility as a parent to say, “Okay, you’re right, it’s better for you to mess up now and not be able to go to any of the colleges that have accepted you for this fall.”

So I guess what I’d say as a parent is yes, it’s pesky, but keep your eyes on the prize. You can endure 6 months of this.

berurah · March 27, 2007, 9:45pm

I would also be interested in hearing about what precipitated the rule changes–have their been some issues that your parents are trying to correct?

I am the mom of six kids (20,18,16,13,12,9). None of my kids has ever had a curfew and anyone older than 12 or 13 pretty much determines his/her own bedtime, within reason. As it has turned out, my older kids are SO active in sports, theatre, etc., that they typically are WANTING to go to bed! lol

Dh and I have set very few “do-not-cross-this-line” limits, but the ones that we have set (mostly around serious things like NO drinking, NO drugs, NO tattoos or alterna-piercings and general good, honest, and responsible personal conduct) have all been followed with no rebellion (KNOCK ON WOOD lol).

I honestly think that because we don’t nitpick with our kids, our kids return our trust and faith in them with general conduct that will make us proud. They have all expressed, at one time or another, that they would feel worse than WE would if they disappointed us. I believe them. ;)

~berurah

dank08 · March 27, 2007, 9:55pm

I sometimes wish my parents did that for me. Some of it anyways.

hsmomstef · March 27, 2007, 10:10pm

berurah – you sound like you have the exact same set of rules that our family does. Nice to see that it works for another family!

cheers · March 27, 2007, 10:38pm

Well, kev, you were an idiot to agree to those rules but you may have learned a lesson–don’t sign up to anything you’re not fully prepared to follow through!

<ol>
<li>Go back and try to renegotiate that contract. Bring some scientific data from your pediatrician that shows that teenagers are inherently night owls. Tell you mom that you are not sleeping at 9:30–you are staying awake until 1 am. You can’t read?</li>
<li>I’m not buying your reasoning on why you should have the internet on after 10:30 pm. I see your mom visualizing IM and porn and paedophiles. Do you have a worthwhile purpose for the night time net use?</li>
<li>Your parents don’t trust you. They are treating you like a parent would treat a much younger child. Did you do something to deserve that? Fess up. Or are you the oldest?</li>
</ol>

If they are simply misreading the situation, then all you can do is bide your time for six months. Get a late-night job for the summer–and remember not to treat your teenagers like 8 year olds when it’s your turn…

parent2noles · March 27, 2007, 10:43pm

Hmmm - as the father of two daughters, we had them home by 11:00 PM until they went away to college. Excepting special circumstances, of course.

Rarely, if ever, was it a real problem as we adjusted for circumstances.

corranged · March 27, 2007, 11:17pm

I think that it’s strange that they have such a list of specific rules. It sounds as if something a younger kid might have. Like the others, I want to know why you have these new rules.

I don’t like most of your arguments against the rules. Bed at 11, wake at 6, is seven hours of sleep. You probably sleep naturally for eight or nine. Yes, people your age get tired later at night, but schools are still structured on a particular schedule, and you should try to get a good amount of sleep for your health. My parents tended to want me home around eleven, and it wasn’t a big problem. It wasn’t a strict curfew, though, so getting home at midnight wasn’t a problem. I don’t think I’ve ever had an enforced “bedtime,” though.

I think that your parents’ rules are babying and micro-managing. Since they are new, I wonder whether you showed that you needed them in place. I would suggest getting the rules lessened on some sort of schedule through the rest of the school year and the summer in order to prepare you for the freedom of college. You should make sure to behave well and approximately follow their rules (get enough sleep, do your work, don’t stay out late, etc.) after they are taken away. Your biggest argument is the freedome you will soon have. If you are mature enough to succeed in college, you are mature enough to determine your own sleep and homework schedule.

frazzled1 · March 28, 2007, 8:16am

Whatever may have precipitated the new rules (and I also wonder what that might have been), I think it’s way too intrusive/controlling for parents to enforce bedtime for a high school senior. I don’t see why a teen can’t determine his/her own sleep schedule, provided the kid isn’t creating a disturbance that interferes with the sleep of others in the family. What are the OP’s parents going to do 6 months from now when their sons are sleeping 5 hours a day, often from 5 AM on? Is there a medical issue?

My kids have always chosen their own bedtimes. Like berurah’s kids, they usually fall gratefully into bed as soon as their schedules allow.

As to the internet use - I do believe that the OP’s parents have the right to enforce the 10:30 PM limitation, since it’s a service they’re paying for, in their own home. However, I never have imposed such a restriction, nor would I, unless I was concerned about possible abuse.

Kevin, I think we could help you more with discussing this with your parents if you gave us more information about why they imposed the new rules.

A.S.A.P · March 28, 2007, 9:31am

Hmmm. From your post, it sounds like you are very “plugged in” all the time.

Do your folks know you’re on the internet (phone) after you go to bed, and are they ok with this? This seems to break the rule. ( If this were my rule, I’d say no to the cell phone, but reading until you fall asleep would be ok.)

When you’re home, are you either on the internet, on the phone, or doing homework? Do you and your twin eat dinner with your parents and talk? Do you have family time, or are you either with friends, on the phone or on the net?

I have to say that the only time I felt we needed this kind of “control” in our house was when each of my kids were freshmen. (14) My son used to get IMs at all hours of the night (from girls) and we had to limit the computer time. His grades has slipped a bit and he wasn’t getting enough rest or focusing on what we thought he should be doing. Your parent’s rules remind me a bit of how we had to set limits back then. My D needed them, too, but I can’t remember why anymore.

By the time both kids were 16, they didn’t need these kinds of rules. Somehow, they grew up. We didn’t have a curfew because we always knew where they were, and they didn’t stay out late on school nights. They stayed over at others homes very rarely, usually during the summer months. . (I understand your parents discouraging overnights during the school year, because it usually means you’re pretty wiped out the next day after staying up all night, right?)

Is it possible that your parents have given you a lot of freedom in the past, and you have not acted responsibly?

berurah · March 28, 2007, 9:33am

Regardless of what’s gone one with Kevin in the past, this type of micromanaging typically backfires, IMHO.

berurah · March 28, 2007, 9:36am

I’m actually glad to see this too! I honestly believe that trust invested nets big returns. (oh, and a little Jewish guilt too! lol)

~b.

JHS · March 28, 2007, 9:47am

<ol>
<li>I don’t like “don’t you agree my parents are crazy?” threads. Most parents aren’t crazy. They have reasons for what they’re doing. Maybe there’s more than one possible way to accomplish what they want to accomplish, but usually they are doing something rational.</li>
<li>I share the instinct of many posters that these rules – which seem unusual to me for 12th graders – probably didn’t come out of nowhere.</li>
<li>OP: I understand your frustration with these rules. If I had tried to do this with my kids, I might have had to carry a weapon for protection. But, as you say, you’ll be in college soon. If you can’t convince them to change the rules, or to be more liberal with exceptions, go to bed at 11:00 for a few months. It won’t do permanent damage. You will be able to impress your future friends with stories of your unreasonable parents.</li>
</ol>

A.S.A.P · March 28, 2007, 10:32am

^^what he said. :)

Marian · March 28, 2007, 10:34am

zkevin, if there isn’t something in your behavior that prompted these new rules, is there something that your parents have heard from other sources.

There is information out there saying that inadequate sleep has very negative consequences – including negative academic consequences – for teenagers. Could your parents have read an article on that subject?

dke · March 29, 2007, 6:05pm

I’m learning as I go with these rules. Our 14 yr. old has lights out at 930pm or he’d miss the bus in the a.m. He’d also procrastinate on homework if he knew he had all night to do it. Weekends are flexible, but with sports he’s pretty tired anyway, as one of the other posters said. I had tons of rules growing up…they helped me to learn self discipline…we will CERTAINLY have curfews regardless of the kids’ ages because I’M not going to stay up waiting for them! There’s no good reason to be out all night IMHO. (I’m admittedly old fashioned. So be it.)

zkevin · March 29, 2007, 7:32pm

Hmm, interesting set of responses. I thought I had explained why there was a change in rules in this paragraph:

Originally, we had no “set time” to sleep at, usually my parents told me I should go to sleep at a certain time they felt reasonable. Usually I was told to go upstairs by around 11 PM, but never forced to be “asleep” by a certain time. My guidelines for going out and coming back was always 12:00 (since at the time, I was 16, so there was a curfew for driving past 12 anyways). There was no specific event that precipated these changes…

JHS: I’d like to point out, I’m in no way posting this thread to say “my parents are crazy, don’t you agree?”

My purpose of this post was simply to:

I wanted to see some other viewpoints on my situation. It’s always nice to see some viewpoints apart from my own vs my parents and it helps me view the situation from a more unbiased point of view.

jimbob1225: I’m 17, and I haven’t even once brought up an argument regarding these rules, since the initial implementation of these rules. I’m making this thread to try to see some other viewpoints, cause I want to make sure that if I decide to argue it, I’ve seen the argument from multiple different points of view.

hsmomstef:

Sorry for grammatical errors, bad habit with the “me and my parents”. I do know that my parents and I is grammatically correct :). Thanks for your opinions on setting my own rules with my parents, but I won’t be able to change the rules for next schoolyear anyways, since there will be no rules in place (I’ll be in college :P).

TrinSF:

Quite ironically, my grades during my senior year have been the highest they’ve ever been throughout high school, even though I, myself think I’m starting to get a bit of senioritis. I’m currently holding a 3.8ish GPA UW (although I’m sure that if I put the same amount of time into school as I did during my junior year, I’d have near a 3.9 to 4.0), higher then the 3.6 range I usually have. Basically what I’m saying is, I’m perfectly content to see my parents “rein” me back in if my grades slip, but I personally don’t see them going anywhere in the rescinded-admissions range.

berurah:

My parents and I also have the “no drinking/smoking/drugs/etc.”, and those have been followed very closely by both me and my brother.

cheers:

<ol>
<li>That’s what I’m going to attempt to do (renegotiating), and that’s also the purpose of me starting this thread. I wanted to make sure I have a reasonable argument before attempting to renegotiate (if I’m going to do so at all). Yes, I realize it’s nobody’s fault but my own for agreeing to the rules, which is why I have followed them with little/no arguments for over two months now. </li>
<li>My reasons I stated are my honest reasons I wish to use the internet. Additionally, one other reason I haven’t stated is that having the internet on during the night makes download’s much easier (especially big ones). I’m sure that I’ll probably be on AIM/facebook after 10:30, and perhaps all the way till 12. But no later then that. But once again, my main reasons were listed in my original post.</li>
<li>Technically, I am the not the “oldest”, I have a twin brother that’s one minute older then me, so technically I guess you could argue I’m the “oldest” due to the fact both of us are the first kids my parents have raised. I don’t know why they won’t trust me for the curfew times (going back home after being out). But they have plenty of reasons to put the 10:30 internet timeline in. I’m notorious for playing games (usually online games), AIM, facebook late into the night. I stated in my previous post that there are certain days where if they forget to turn off the internet, I’ll be using the computer very late into the night (2 AM?). In my defense, I also explained that:</li>
</ol>

corranged:

Normally I do get about 7 hours of sleep now, and I’d still probably get around 6 hours even if they removed my strict curfews/rules. It just so happens that I don’t seem to need alot of sleep. During my junior year, I had so much work/EC’s, that I almost never slept before 1 AM, and there were many times where I’d pull all-nighter’s to finish my homework. I’m guessing that due to that my body is use to having less sleep? I know these arguments are lame, but neither my grades/health have declined due to my lack of sleep. I’m sick maybe once or twice a year at most, and my grades have stayed steady, regardless of how much/little sleep I’ve gotten.

frazzled1:

I agree with almost everything you have said, I’m quite willing to deal with the 10:30 timeline for internet use (I’ve already dealt with it for 1.5 years now), but I figured I might as well bring that into this thread as well to see some opinions about it :)

ASAP:

I don’t know whether my parents know about the fact that I can still check my email/facebook/AIM with my phone, but they DO know that I often stay up talking to people on the phone. Additionally, my phone’s capabilities are limited, and I don’t have all the things I can do on a computer that I can do on a phone. I even get sick/tired of texting with my phone with AIM, so I don’t usually even use AIM on my phone.

Regarding when I’m home, I almost always eat dinner with my parents and discuss various topics over dinner. I wouldn’t say that our dinner table lacks talking. However, me and my brother do miss alot of dinner’s at home (due to work, tennis, EC’s, etc.). When I am home, I’m usually either doing homework, using the computer, or on the phone though. However, I do spend quite a bit of time with my parents (we play golf together, and I play tennis with my mom as well)

About having alot of freedom, I never really had much freedom in the past either, so not really alot of freedom for me to abuse.

Muchos gracias for the responses, and I’ll be looking forward to more :)

Seeking some opinions of other parents about certain rules

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