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<p>LOL, same here! D had stopped keeping track of her hours once she reached the minimum required to graduate. Only to find out later that NHS service hours had to be between date X and date Y.</p>
<p>Thought I’d check back in with the results from ds1’s senior awards night.</p>
<p>I think seven departmental awards were given. Ds didn’t win one (never expected to), and the only thing he had to say was that he guesses they chose kids with a combination of aptitude and interest as he thought, for instance, the math winner wasn’t the single best math student, but she must have had some other enthusiastic quality, and he was fine with that. My impression is that the teachers get together and choose kids who are strong academically and have an intellectual curiosity above and beyond, that it’s not just a numbers thing. Interestingly, I didn’t know half of the kids who won these awards, so it was definitely not a popularity contest. </p>
<p>The next set of awards were Who’s Who-type honors for kids who embody academic achievement, leadership and service to school and community – the kind of all-around good kids who work hard and are active in the school community. A half-dozen boys and a half-dozen girls were honored, selected by admin and faculty. Ds did receive one of those, and that wasn’t at all surprising. Three boys were, IMO, shoe-ins; three of the boys were a bit surprising but only because there are so many great kids from which to choose, I don’t know how they narrow it down. I don’t know the girls as well, but ds seemed to think they were all great choices.</p>
<p>There were four new, one-time scholarships announced, and I’m not sure how those kids were picked as they didn’t talk about criteria. I recognized three of the names but couldn’t tell you what the common denominator was there.</p>
<p>Interstingly, the val didn’t get a single award, though she’s a perfectly lovely girl.</p>
<p>As for the concept of deserving an award: I think a student and his parents would decide a student deserves an award if he has a particular set of credentials (such as having made varsity all four years) and in the past he’s noticed that all students with those particular credentials were given an award at the same high school, or if in the current year all students with that set of credentials were just given an award and the student was not. Also, they would conclude the same if any student with an objectively inferior set of credentials is given a particular award while the student with superior set of those same credentials isn’t.</p>
<p>I don’t want to give actual personal details about my D or her teammates, but as an illustration let’s say that in addition to making varsity in 3 sports all 4 years, and being captain for all 3 sports for 2 of those years, my D achieved 15 specific accomplishments in her sport. Let’s say there’s another student who played the exact same sports, was only varsity two of the four years, was never a captain, and accomplished just 3 of the achievements D did and no others. If the latter student received an award for athletic achievement (not for team spirit or some other nebulous thing), and D didn’t, is it so hard to believe that D would think she also deserved one? Notice I’m not saying that D thinks she deserved one and the other girl didn’t, but rather that if the other girl was deemed meritorious, then D should have been deemed worthy also. And D might also conclude she deserves an award if athletes on other teams with parallel achievements were given a certain award and she wasn’t. Please note that I’m also talking about a scenario in which some 50 or 60 awards were distributed.</p>
<p>At DD’s school, one senior boy and one senior girl get a language award. At the school, only one boy and one girl had scored high enough to be be recognized by the national teachers’ association of that language and they both did so two years in a row. One year, the girl earned the second-highest score in the region. Both were A students in the language. Additionally, both students were planning to major in a language in college. Yet neither of them got the senior award for the language. Hmmmm. Even the kids who got the award were shocked to be recognized.</p>
<p>mommusic–I see what you’re saying about the award possibly benefitting more the person with great interest in the subject matter. However, couldn’t it also happen that if a student is rewarded for his work in physics that he might begin to see himself as someone who can excel at physics, which could in turn motivate him to pursue that field? This type of recognition could encourage undecided kids, since they’ll say “Hey, I must be pretty good at physics. Maybe I should think about majoring in it.”</p>
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<p>I don’t know you and I don’t know your daughter – so I have no way at all of knowing your situation – but if I could honestly say that my kid has A,B,C,D credentials and every year, every kid with A,B,C,D credentials always gets an award… and my kid was overlooked … then I might ask, “who did we manage to tick off?” NOT - “who has it in for us” … but more like, “who did we inadvertently hurt or offend along the way”.</p>
<p>On the other hand – if every year the kids who win the awards always have A,B,C,D credentials, and my kid has A,B,C,D credentials – and my kid doesn’t get the award… then I might ask, “how many kids have A,B,C,D credentials?” After all, if there are 90 kids at a high school who have made varsity teams for all 4 years, and 30 kids who meet that criteria get awards – then the odds would be 2:1 against getting the award. So then you are kind of in the position of the kid with the 4.5 GPA & 2350 SAT score who gets turned down by Princeton - just because you meet certain criteria doesn’t guarantee a win.</p>
<p>calmom, that’s kind of what I meant in my post about who won awards at ds’s school – there are so many deserving kids that I don’t know how they go about winnowing it down to just six. Sometimes, it’s an extraordinary circumstance, I think. We are blessed at our school to have so many wonderful kids. A wealth of riches. Some of their personal stories are amazing.</p>
<p>“Also – and I think this is important – at least in the public high school, there are a lot of teachers who do not have particularly impressive educational credentials. They went to school at mid-level public colleges and have a year or so post-grad education at a teacher’s college. I mean-- most didn’t go to prestige universities or become doctors or lawyers or Ph.D’s – if they did, they wouldn’t be teaching high school. (There are a few exceptions, fortunately – and they really do enrich the kid’s experiences- but they are not the norm in public school settings). So my point is – there is a lot of room for resentment to form. Even if a kid is very considerate and generous, a teacher who worked their way through Podunk U. may perceive the kid going off to an Ivy as being spoiled and over-privileged. The perception may be wrong, but its people who have less tend to perceive people who have more. So parents with the attitude that seems to be expressed in this thread (kid “deserves” award because kid has top GPA, is going off to prestige college, and has X,Y,Z accomplishments) – may really be tone deaf in respect to the awards system.”</p>
<p>Wow. Calmom, as a teacher, I take great offense to that and I hope that you have refrained from communicating your disdain for teachers in the presence of your children. Many of us chose our career because it is our passion and what we are good at, not because we had no other options. And many teachers choose “Podunk University” because it has the best teaching program available and is an economical choice for someone that is planning to make teacher salary. </p>
<p>I have a had a long career in several school systems and will agree that teachers vary greatly in the quality that they offer however I have never, ever, seen or heard of or even suspected a teacher of having a resentment or jealousy of a student because of an accomplishment. Even the graduates of “Podunk” want the very best for their students
and take pride in them when they succeed. Although, I will admit, since we are only human, we may be turned off by an ATTITUDE of superiority and disdain on the part of a student. I has been my experience that such an attitude begins at home.</p>
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<p>I agree with EPTR in finding Calmom’s comment offensive. I did go to a “prestige” university and law school and gave up a career in law to become a high school teacher because I didn’t love law but I do love teaching. I think I am a good teacher, but I don’t think I’m superior to the graduates of “Podunk U,” nor do I think that teachers who are graduates of non-Ivy’s are resentful of students who will be attending those schools. There are lots of bright, capable people–teachers and otherwise–who come out of a wide variety of schools.</p>
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<p>Ditto here. In fact I turned down two separately offered apprenticeships in law (bypassing law school) because of what was perceived as my aptitude for the field and my ability to learn very quickly. Education was literally my innate vocation from exactly age 5, when I “heard the call,” and which was stepped up a notch at age 7, when I realized I wanted to plan curriculum.</p>
<p>I agree with EPTR that, just like other fields, intelligence and talent vary in teaching. I don’t think a generalization can be made. I will say that the older teachers I know tend to be better educated, overall, as well as specifically better educated (not just more skilled due to experience) in the field of teaching per se: better prepared, more professional in their understanding, etc. And definitely more professional in their personal work ethic/commitment. </p>
<p>But as to brains and ability, I have met brillant teachers (of all ages), brilliant executive secretaries, and brilliant actors. Brilliant as in IQ.</p>
<p>Well stated, EPTR!</p>
<p>Calmom:</p>
<p>My mouth literally dropped when I read your post… I agree with EPTR.</p>
<p>I too am a teacher with a doctorate who left a 6 figure income in order to teach. I have to say that teachers are some of the most caring people I have ever met and I have never seen this type of resentment of which you speak.</p>
<p>I also agree with EPTR that what you may see as resentment is in fact a reasonable response to a kid with serious ATTITUDE issues.</p>
<p>I didn’t mean to change the direction of the thread but I just couldn’t let that one go. I have seen this type of sentiment expressed on other CC threads and I find it perplexing. I would be interested in finding out if there has ever been a study of the correlation between “prestige” of university studied at by the teacher and their effectiveness on the job. I suspect that the results would not back up Calmom’s opinion.
In fact I can think of two teachers who were at our local high school (not retained) who both studied at Ivies and demonstrated poor teaching skills, lack of effective communication and strained relationships with students. Was this due to where they studied? No, I don’t think so, any more than it is for the bad teacher from the local tier 3 college. It does suggest, however that there are good and bad teachers and many in between and the educational history of any one particular is not an indication of their effectiveness in the classroom.</p>
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<p>My mouth drops open at the concept that parents would sit down with a student to “decide whether the student deserves an award” in advance of the awards ceremony.</p>
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<p>If I were a teacher, I certainly would be less inclined to “reward” a student in which I felt that the parent had a very clear opinion that the student “deserved” the award and would be ****y if the award didn’t go that way. It’s human nature not to want to reward people who give off the impression of entitlement, even if they are objectively entitled.</p>
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<p>I disagree. If anything, if you’re going to deviate from objective measurements of ability as measured by tests and the like, I think passion is PRECISELY the thing that should be recognized.</p>
<p>EPTR, I’m not going to waste time with too many details. My daughter in particular encountered teachers who tried to encourage her to “look seriously at community college” rather than going straight off to a 4 year university. This is a kid who had her sights set on elites from the beginning and would be showing up at home saying that “Mrs. M. says she really think the teaching is better at community colleges.” </p>
<p>I’m not trying to attack the Mrs. M’s out there. I didn’t say anything whatsoever about their teaching ability. This is the thread about their award-giving sensibilities. A lot of teachers didn’t relate to my kid’s ambitions --they saw them as unrealistic or simply outside of the realm of their own expectations for the kids that they taught. I was responding to the poster who is distraught that a Stanford-bound student doesn’t get awards… my point is that that not everyone shares the same world view.</p>
<p>After reading this thread for several days, I’ve finally remembered my example of why criteria-based awards don’t always work. In 8th grade I got the home economics award. Although my sewing project was awful, I met all the deadlines for class and had the highest average due to heavy weighting on the tests. </p>
<p>Similarly I think I had the drivers ed award (or maybe was runner up, can’t remember)… and although I am a safe driver I have depth perception issues and was likely one of the worst drivers in the class. But my point average (mostly tests and attendance) was very high.</p>
<p>At our school, some of the music awards are by student vote. Although you would think this has risk of becoming tainted by popularity etc, the student musicians seem to do a good job voting for their peers based on talent/dedication.</p>
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<p>I understood calmom’s point – which was NOT “oh, well, teachers don’t have elite degrees, so screw them and the horses they rode in on.”</p>
<p>A friend of mine had a daughter who was interested in becoming a teacher and was interested in Northwestern’s School of Education. The parents were willing to pay, that wasn’t the issue, and she was otherwise in the reasonable ballpark to apply to a school of that caliber. Two teachers in the school told the daughter not to bother with a Northwestern degree if “all she was going to do” was teach high school. I found that shameful on the teachers’ part to give that kind of advice.</p>
<p>calmom: unfortunately, i have run across a couple of teachers who fit that description. thankfully, the majority of my son’s teachers in high school didn’t have that sort of pettiness of spirit, but it does exist.</p>