<p>“I’m thrilled that Arizona is finally doing something about illegal immigration”</p>
<p>You and three quarters of the AZ electorate.</p>
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<p>From the same article, an “immigrant advocate” is quoted as saying:““It makes me very fearful of what the future holds because I think that this may potentially send out a message that it’s okay to continue to bash immigrants,” Lee said.”</p>
<p>Again, the deliberate dropping of the adjective illegal. Opposing illegal immigration does not mean opposing immigration.</p>
<p>If you let a child of an undoc person pay Instate tuition, Does that mean that just by crossing a border that you can get instate tuition, and essentially attend any school that you chose? Do these students have to prove that they have been instate for 1 year and have parents likewise be instate for same period?</p>
Simba:
I think it’s really primarily due to 3 factors -
Geography - The USA shares a long and desolate border with the country where the majority of illegals are from. Canada is quite isolated except for its border with the USA which has very few illegal Americans trying to migrate to Canada.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Opportunity - The USA is an economic powerhouse where the illegals have little difficulty in obtaining jobs. Some argue that this alone is justification for people to break our laws, i.e. the ‘no one else wants those jobs so it’s okay for people to break immigration laws to fulfill them’ syndrome. I don’t agree with this argument at all. I do agree that the immigration laws should be reviewed and that the end result should probably be that more migrant workers be permitted but it needs to be done legally and in a controlled manner.</p></li>
<li><p>Enforcement - There are inadequate resources to enforce the laws. There is a large effort to enforce the laws, thousands of illegals are caught every year but it just can’t keep up with the even thousands more who are repeatedly stealing their way into this country. Most who are caught are simply bused back to Mexico and try it again the next day. Some people believe that because our enforcement isn’t adequate that it’s justification enough for the illegals to break into the country and remain here. This is the ‘if you don’t get caught, there’s nothing wrong with it’ syndrome. I certainly don’t go along with that strain of thought yet we hear it all the time applied to the illegal immigration issue. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>I’m sure if Canada wanted more immigrants Latin America, Asia, and eastern Europe can supply them with as many as they’re willing to take. As the illegal situation gets more pervasive in the USA, just as areas outside of the Southwest and Northeast of the USA are seeing more and more of a problem, Canada will likely start to see more and more of a similar issue if they aren’t already with illegals moving through the USA into Canada.</p>
<p>Canada has a well developed immigration points system. Anybody from anywhere can legally immigrate if they satisfy the requirements. USA doesn’t really have a system.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that it’s easier to be a legal immigrant to Canada or not. From what I’ve read, Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world, accepting approximately 265,000 legal immigrants each year. I’m not sure that there is a lot of accurate information on illegal immigrants in Canada. Most of those we read about here, at least recently, are Portuguese and are routinely deported back to Portugal when caught, regardless of how long they’ve lived here or if they have children who have been born here. There have been several such stories in the past year, and much resultant protesting against the deportations.</p>
<p>I know that there are three major classifications of legal immigrants: family reunifications, economic, and refugee, with several different categories in each. Some are more difficult than others. I don’t know how the system compares to that of entering the U.S. I do know that there are regular ‘green card’ lotteries which are advertised in Canada. I believe that these are targetted at countries which have traditionally had low immigration rates to the U.S. so obviously Mexico wouldn’t be included in that.</p>
<p>How does giving them in-state tuition change this message? You still have to graduate from high school, get accepted into the university, find a way to pay for in-state tuition and fees, etc.</p>
<p>The people I know who worked their way through public universities universally feel that they worked very hard indeed for their college degrees, even though they got in-state tuition. It’s not exactly a handout.</p>
<p>Since illegal immigrants generally can’t get loans, charging OOS tuition changes the message to: “You can’t get a college degree no matter how hard you work, because no one’s going to loan you $80,000.” I just don’t see how that makes economic sense for the USA. Kids who grew up here speaking English are NOT going to go ‘home’ to countries they don’t remember. Instead of getting educated and contributing to economic growth, they’ll be flipping burgers here. Why is that better?</p>
<p>It seems to me that identity theft is a terrible crime. At best a hassle and at worst a nightmare that can ruin the person whose identity is stolen. I am concerned that going after illegals is like busting a coke dealer in Newark, NJ while the coke importer lives in Short Hills, Nj (or N.Caldwell a la Tony Soprano-who perhaps wrote here on CC as he fretted about Meadow getting into Columbia.) Both the thief and the person robbed are victims of a system set up to facilitate this. Follow the money to find out why it exists and stop making it worthwhile to hire illegals, or find a way to make the workers legal.
Show me stats that removing welfare mothers made any impact on the federal budget.
re: Reagan. It is clear that this topic, which he used to win the election was not relevant to the economic health of the United States. Federal spending was not ruined by welfare cheats. Rather he picked an emotionally charged campaign statement to get votes, and it had little to nothing to do with the country. what he, or Rudy, Clinton or Bush have done pro/con for the United States can eventually be objectively examined. That does not make using racial fears to get votes an ethical choice.
ps. again imho, you can’t compare Reagan with a Nixon, Bush1, or Clinton. Agree or disagree with their beliefs they were smartie pants of the first water. IMHO no honest liberal or conservative should go the route of attacks and smoke and mirrors. Of course I am fond of unicorns and Ents too. </p>
<p>Rudy G. proved wefare fraud was rampant in NYC, but that is NOT what caused the fortunes of NY to go up and down. Let me be up front. No Rudy in NYC, likely no DD1 in NYC. It was a scary, dirty, dangerous place. the change is glorious and I enjoy NYC now as I had not since young adulthood-back before you were born! He is a great Amercian, a leader, a sleaze, a cheater, a hero. practically a human bean, in fact. But where are those folks he got rid of? Five blocks over, still hooking but out of sight? Living in the subway tunnels? Moved to Jersey City and using their funds? Working? Is Rudy’s change permanent or a stop-gap? Permanent is what we need, then on to the next issue. But darn those subways are nice now.</p>
<p>Entitlements. The biggest and best is SS. Your hard earned money is gone in, what, 18 months? We are then supported by the workers coming after us. looks like many being supported by those illegal alien payments. Yes, we need a say. More of a say if it is based on facts and not biases on either side. Look at CC itself and see how many are self-serving and have no clue they are themselves, or thier parents, or their kids, getting entitlements. In fact if they notice it all they shrug it off cause they “deserve” it.</p>
<p>What we really need are ACTUAL NUMBERS as to how many kids have been qualified to be admitted to ASU, applied to ASU, and how many actually did not attend because of economic constraints. I have a feeling the numbers could be quite low. This issue is being raised by “activists” for reasons much deeper than the difference between instate and out of state tuition for illegal immigrants and/or kids of illegal immigrants, and is being used to appeal to the emotions, rather than the reason, of certain constituent groups, imo.</p>
<p>Canada has a lower birth rate than the US, a birth rate that is below replacement. If they don’t encourage immigration the Frozen North will empty out after several generations and their generous social safety net will fail. Or, I should say, it will fail sooner.</p>
<p>“According to Pope Benedict, our low birthrate is due to our “godlessness”.”</p>
<p>The homebase of Benedict’s god, Italy, has one of the lowest birthrates of all, around 1.2 children per couple. That means about every 30-35 years or so, the native population of Italy will be cut in half. Italy has an unofficial “one child” policy that is as or more effective than the Chinese government’s. Makes Canadians look positively fecund. </p>
<p>Is there anyway for an undocumented student who came to the US with parents as a young child and an Ivy caliber student? His and parents immigrations status to become documented is pending. Only younger sister born in the US. What can he do?</p>
<p>Most of the discussion on this thread surrounds the student attending a state school which for legal residents of the state (as defined by that state) qualifies them for in-state tuition which is tuition subsidized by the taxpayers of that state. Private schools aren’t subsidized by the state in this way so their criteria would be completely different and might not include any residency requirements.</p>
<p>I don’t know about Ohio but I assume they accept international students and that he could be accepted as an international student. If he’s an ‘Ivy Caliber’ student he might do better with a private that might give him some good merit aid. It could be cheaper than full freight at a state school. </p>
<p>Also, if he’s already actually already in Ohio, check Ohio’s laws regarding in-state tuition just in case they would allow him to attend in-state even if his parents are currently undocumented or if there’s paperwork pending. You might start with the website for the Universities in the area of residency requirements.</p>
<p>Pat Buchanan, someone I typically do not agree with, re-stated some very interesting facts on low birth rates in Europe and Japan in his book on the decline of the west. Apparently, few experts refute the data on declining birth rates and “graying” populations in the industrialized west.</p>
<p>Mizo, an illegal student cannot get govt aid. Whether a school will let the family just file its own forms or if he will still have to file FAFSA for confirmation that he is not eligible for govt money is up to the individual school. I know that there are local schools here who have given merit money to illegals, but those awards did not require any financial aid apps to be filed. </p>
<p>THe whole situation with immigration, particularly the fact that we do not make much effort to enforce the rules we have on the books, makes it a crazy situation. In many areas, including my area, the schools are not permitted to ask questions about residence status. Kids are permitted to go to school without that being an issue. So then when they get to college age, the question becomes whether this policy should continue or not. They are residents in that they have been here for a very long time, some of them for most of their lives. But many of them do not pay any taxes and are not on any govt documents. Here they get in state tuition at the state schools if they can prove they have been here for three years. Do not know what proof entails.</p>
<p>Although I hear the arguments about the fact that illegals put so much into social security, I can tell you that the ones I know around here, and there are many of them, are paid on a cash basis and they do not pay a dime in taxes outside of sales tax. Kind of insane that they can register with one govt agency, and have the other unaware or not care, when said agency’s job is to patrol such cases. I cannot even begin to try to argue things one way or the other since we are so inconsistent with the way we apply this law. This is really what contributes to the problem of illegals sneaking into this country. Once we make a stance and enforce it, we can start making changes to the policies as we can better see the flaws in it and where it can be improved. Right now we have anarchy.</p>