<p>And then what would I have done with my recalcitrant toddler who physically resisted being wiped during diaper changes? I could not restrain the child with only one hand (the other one was needed for wiping). I could not let the wiping go undone because it would cause diaper rash. I could not afford to put the child in otherwise-unnecessary day care so there would always be multiple adults present (allowing restraint to be used instead of corporal punishment). And the child was too young for reasoning, time-outs, or withdrawal of privileges to be effective.</p>
<p>What option did I have other than the slap on the leg that got the necessary cooperation?</p>
<p>Just off the top of my head - distract him with a game, toy or song, dump him in the bathtub or sink or large receptacle for water (again making it a game), or use some type of physical restraint with velcro straps. If by toddler you mean over a year, they should understand with language what you are trying to do. </p>
<p>Imitating his behavior would have been another option - it is a way to make contact with young children.</p>
<p>There was a NYT mag article recently about the use of dogs with children with disabilities that I think would function along the same line of reasoning with what you are describing with your child.</p>
<p>Parents are a child’s most important teachers and parents teach their children by example. When a parent hits a child, the parent teaches the child that when you are mad you hit. It’s that simple and it is a horrible message to teach.</p>
But it’s not that simple. Rather, for many of us who were spanked, it didn’t even happen when the parent was mad–if often happened later. I just get annoyed by this fantasy version of things when all corporal punishment is some sadistic parent slapping his kid across the face in a fit of rage. That’s not what many, many kids experienced when corporal punishment was common and commonly accepted. I don’t mind that people don’t like it and think it’s a bad idea, but I do mind having my parents slandered.</p>
<p>I actually find that more disturbing than a parent who spanks when they are frustrated. That you could calmly call your child into a room to hit them…I just can’t conceive of doing that. </p>
<p>And before I’m accused of slandering anyone…DH used to do that, and he is a wonderful guy (we are not just our actions in isolation, but a series of decisions). But I just couldn’t support that, and I truly believe both parents should be on the same page with respect to discipline.</p>
<p>I don’t believe anyone who spanks (vs. beats or whips) is a bad person or a bad parent. But I do truly believe there are better ways. I will admit that the problem with people who don’t spank is that many of them not only don’t spank, they don’t do ANYTHING effective to curb inappropriate behavior. And that’s just the other extreme.</p>
<p>Some people spank out of frustration. Some people spank out of ignorance. Some people are just plain lazy about discipline. My parents didn’t spank, but I had family members who did. They weren’t terrible people - at least not all of them.</p>
<p>I am not suggesting that example at all. I am saying that there are no parents who spank a child (on the bottom) because they are happy with the child’s behavior. When a parent spanks a child, the parent is doing so because the parent is angry that the child has not complied with the rules established by the parent. The parent is angry. Maybe you can call it frustration or disappointment, but the controlling emotion is always anger and the message taught to the child is when I am angry, I will hit. </p>
<p>Few people have parents who are perfect. Just because a parent smokes cigarettes it does not mean the child is somehow justified in smoking. Just because a parent spanked a child, it does not mean that child is justified growing up and spanking his or her child.</p>
<p>Very many aspects of our lives should be gender specific. To say that male and female are the same is insane. Biologically they are so different, and thank goodness it is recognized at least in sports. Having women in army (as one example) has created many more problems than it has solved (the only problem solved was to sut up very loud voices). Yes, screaming seems to be a way of getting illogical, insane and very unfair policies to be implemented. Boy and a girl cannot be treated the same even in the same family. Their expectations ave to be realistic. If it is recognized in sport, why it is not recognized in many other activities that require very different body composition. The answer is always the same - loud and obnoxious voices. At least men seems to be more reasonable as they are not requesting to be allowed to breast feed babies.</p>
I don’t agree with this at all. In my opinion, the primary purpose of punishment of any kind is to deter the undesired behavior in the future. It doesn’t necessarily have to do with being angry. The message is that certain undesired behaviors will have negative consequences–if you do x, you will be punished, so don’t do x. I can understand why many people don’t agree with corporal punishment as the kind of punishment, of course. But disciplining your children is supposed to be for their benefit, not to assuage your emotions.</p>
<p>"In my opinion, the primary purpose of punishment of any kind is to deter the undesired behavior in the future. "
-Let’s face the music. The primary purpose is to let the steam out. Everybody knows it does not work for kids. Only bribes and spending your time with a kid works. I am not against it at all though. Done it myself. However, the results should be very clear - it is to entertain control and teach them to use brutal force in case of disagreements, they will not adjust their behavior, they will make it less detectable (OK, forgot to mention that it will improve their “hiding truth” skills and make them manipulative). Again, I have nothing agianst it, it depends who you wnat to raise.</p>
<p>^You cannot discriminatory ban. You either ban or not. Since it will take another regulation, i am against banning, but still maintain that it does not work, we do it when we do not think staight, let’s accept the fact. We are all have done it, well maybe with exception of saints.</p>
<p>Women have been in the military for over 50 years and most have served admirably. My husband’s squadron had several female pilots who flew combat mission and flew them with distinction in Iraq. </p>
<p>Your statement is simply absurd.</p>
<p>Hunt, I find the idea of a parent calmly hitting a child to be far more chilling than the out of control senario. I was never hit and I never hit my child. It’s wrong to hit children, even when it’s called spanking, even when it’s done “calmly.” I feel the same way about screaming at children. Yes, I’ve raised my voice with my child but I consider those low moments of parenting and I tried to learn from them and do better.</p>
Serious question–why is it “wrong?” Is it because of what you think the results are, or does it violate some moral rule that you think applies? I ask this because for a long time, hardly anybody considered it to be wrong, and a lot of people still don’t. What do you point to in trying to convince somebody that it’s wrong?</p>
<p>It has never been OK. Yes, it is morally wrong. Review your moral philosophers and psychology theorists. Read Alice Miller who writes about the Germanic tradition of child abuse that led to Hitler’s Germany. Kids were hit in multiple places because they didn’t have rights, just as they don’t have rights today in many places and are used as child labor. Exact same thing.</p>
<p>Dobson and other religious right fanatics promoted hitting children, which led to its rise in popularity in some circles today. </p>
<p>The compulsion to repeat is why child abuse is perpetuated.</p>
<p>I was never hit. I doubt a lot of people don’t consider it correct - other than those who go to a church that preaches it, and uneducated people. Which are you?</p>
<p>Again, I am astounded at some of the things you say.</p>
<p>There are plenty of ways to discipline a child which do not involve spanking or bribes. Spending time with children is great, of course, but people spank may well do that, too. It requires more than spending time, and “bribing” children to do the right thing is NOT something I’m in favor of.</p>