<p>Friend is incensed. Her S attends local directional U as some type of engineering tech major. He is currently taking a (sophomore) course for which they just completed the first exam. The class average was in the low 50’s. The S apparently described the test as “brutal” and was one of those with a low score. The professor returned the exams, and suggested that those below a certain average should consider “cutting their losses”.</p>
<p>Friend believes the professor is gearing the course towards a different type of student, not the typical directional U students, and should make the exams and homework a lot easier than he has so far.</p>
<p>ABET accreditation requirements do effectively set a minimum level of course rigor in an engineering degree program.</p>
<p>If you mean engineering technology, that is still subject to a minimum standard to meet ABET accreditation requirements for engineering technology majors.</p>
<p>Also, college tests are often targeted for medians around 50% (graded on a curve) to better distinguish between the students. This is unlike high school tests which are loaded up with easy problems so that C students can get 70% of them correct.</p>
<p>incensed at the school? Send him one of those commercial tech schools, BS from 0 to 2.5 years!!! Seriously, engineering technology is not that hard compared to traditional engineering fields but it’s still no piece of cake.</p>
<p>What is a " typical directional u student?
Arrogant much?
Tell her the son of the ( nom.) secretary of the interior, attended a directional U and was proud to do so.
There are not enough elite colleges to employ good professors, there are many excellent professors at directional Us and even community colleges.</p>
<p>Many courses are weeder courses, it doesnt matter where you attend. In fact in may be easier at a smaller, more prestigious school, because they may be more concerned about their graduation rate & they have more room for students in upper division classes.</p>
<p>Are safety standards or the laws of physics relaxed when it is known that the engineers and technicians on the project went to a “directional university”? If so, then I guess we can relax the curve.</p>
Not sure what you are finding arrogant, emeraldkity? The middle-50 CR/M scores at this school are 870-1050, with an average hs GPA around 3.2. That doesn’t mean there are not some really good students or that they shouldn’t be proud to go there, or that students there don’t try or whatever. But many of the students have academic issues - poor math skills, poor study skills, etc.</p>
<p>From what I’ve seen many directional state U courses are already easier than many top Us (based upon student reports and what they tell me they’re doing). I’ll admit to not having seen Engineering Tech courses though - or anything from that particular prof.</p>
<p>Should they be easier? Probably, for most courses where it probably doesn’t matter (student mainly needs “a” degree vs planning on doing research or something critical with “the” degree). I’m with SomeOldGuy with the safety issues for the other courses (like Engineering) though.</p>
<p>Is the course going to be graded on a curve?</p>
<p>If it is, then the raw scores on the exams are meaningless. The important point is how a particular student did in relation to the mean or median score (which will probably turn out to be a B minus or thereabouts).</p>
<p>If the student got a score that looks low but is above the mean (say, a score in the 60s), he probably doesn’t have a problem. But if his score is below the mean, he probably does.</p>
<p>“Cutting your losses” (that is, dropping the course and, if the course is required for your major, changing your major), is one option for those with scores substantially below the mean. But it is not the only option.</p>
<p>In my opinion, a student who scores below the mean on an exam should be seeking help with the remainder of the course. In this particular case, I don’t think the professor is the best source of help; he seems to have an unfortunate attitude. But the office of the department that teaches the course might be able to direct the student to people who tutor this subject.</p>
<p>I graduated from a directional state u. with a BSN. It was HARD. Nobody could expect it to be “easier” than the big name u’s because we all had to pass the same State Board exam to be registered nurses.</p>
<p>xaniamom–I also find your statement about students at state directionals offensive. There is no “typical”. Sure you can look at stats but keep in mind that many states have programs where they have to take everyone. Those kids don’t typically stay in school very long. In STEM programs especially you will find the stats are not all that different from what you seem to consider a “good” school and to answer your question, no the classes will not be easier. Math is math everywhere.</p>
<p>This is one myth that is often mentioned (though not usually on cc). To bust it, I strongly suggest you find students in similar classes at a Top U and a Directional U and ask to see their tests. It’ll only take about 10 seconds to look them over.</p>
<p>What is needed for a job may be provided at each place, but higher level schools tend to go into much greater depth for knowledge. Deep level tends to be needed for researchers and cutting edge stuff (or just pure curiosity on the part of the intellectual student who is usually drawn to top level schools). It’s not all that necessary for 99% of jobs.</p>
<p>Not only have I seen your myth disproved via countless students at school who relay their experiences to me (including some who transfer from higher level to lower level schools), my own kids have experience with different types of schools.</p>
<p>There’s a reason there are different level schools. They can all be the path to success in life, but it’s a different path.</p>
<p>Did your friend sit the kid down and ask him how much he studied for that test?</p>
<p>Loved one in my family attended a highly respected flagship and also a directional for engineering. He said that the directional was 90% as difficult - so easier, but not much easier. My own kid is doing CS at a directional. It is hard work.</p>
<p>I suspect that the failing kids are not working hard enough. Friend might insist that her kid kick it into gear if he wants to succeed.</p>
<p>I don’t know if they SHOULD be easier but I’m pretty sure they are. Quite a few kids from our flagship university take some of their classes during the summer at a directional university or cc and the courses are not the same. Maybe the OP’s friend thinks the class is too hard, but in fact, it would be that much more challenging at a different school.</p>
<p>I remember my freshman year at a state flagship U being told by a professor: “Look to your left and look to your right. Of the 3 of you, only 1 of you will graduate will an engineering degree.” He was right - lots of people transferred to other majors. </p>
<p>Decisions to change a major don’t need to be made on the basis of a single test. But, if a student isn’t able to handle the challenge in a difficult major, better to eventually accept that and move on to a different major before failing classes, getting on academic probation, etc.</p>
<p>I would guess that the directional U class actually is a bit easier than the class would be at a more selective U, but not hugely so, since difficult material does need to be taught. (My Mom used to teach math at a directional U.)</p>
<p>i also disagree with the assumption that directional U courses are or should be easier!! S2 attends a non flagship in our state…and some would call it a directional U… it is certainly not easier in any way that the flagship or other big college in our state…in fact some claim it is harder in many of the sciences. S2 does well but not because it is easier!!</p>
<p>Because of the lower stats of the admitted students, I would expect to see more remedial options at a directional state U. I’d expect to see students maybe taking a little longer to graduate and lower graduation rates. </p>
<p>I’d expect to see more innovate teaching because reaching the under and/or poorly prepared sometimes takes more out of the box thinking. </p>
<p>I would not, however, expect to see easier courses. Directional Us care about getting their students into grad schools, professional programs, and jobs. Not going to happen if they let themselves become diploma mills.</p>
<p>Are we comparing Directional U to State Flagship? If so, in some states/classes, the two may very well be equal, esp if it’s a state where the state flagship isn’t very highly ranked or they have many transferring in from directional U (vs harder to transfer in).</p>
<p>If we are comparing Directional U (which are usually focused on turning out those who work after grad vs grad school IME) to Top 30 or Top 50, I’ll still tell everyone who feels they are the same to compare tests and then say that. Yes, there may be a course or two (or programs like nursing) that are essentially the same as the focus everywhere is what is needed for the job, but I’ve yet to have a single student who opted to transfer down tell me that they were the same in depth overall (English, Science, Math - in depth). I’ve also heard from some who transferred up who feel the same way (way more in depth at Higher Rated U).</p>
<p>Again, both can prepare one for most jobs.</p>
<p>Otherwise, if math is math or science is science - why do we even have Honors levels in high school? Should we scrap all levels and just put all the kids in together just learning the basics? That wouldn’t get my vote. The different levels are great for helping different kids succeed to reach their goal (or just stimulating their intellectual curiosity) - as it is with different levels in college.</p>
<p>Our experience has been that students may take courses during the summer at a lower " tiered" school that is closer to their home to save time & money.
However, these courses need to be preapproved by their home school, to be accepted and generally they cannot be courses that the home university offers.</p>
<p>Perhaps some humanities courses may have lower expectations or cover less material, but an ochem course at a community college needs to cover the same things as at a 4 yr university, or else the 4 yr university wont accept it.
If they weren’t equivalent, why would schools like UChicago & Oberlin allow students who have two yrs of college transfer courses from a community college, enter as juniors?</p>
<p>I was talking to a prof who taught chemistry at both University of Mass-Amherst & at Amherst College & he said the UMass students were more engaged and eager to ask questions whereas the Amherst students wouldnt ask unless they were already sure of the answer.
You dont learn much if you are afraid to fail, especially in the sciences.</p>