Should I be brutally honest with my son's friend?

Parents Forum
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<p>A year ago, after we got through my son’s college applications (which he completed early, with one batch done by October 1 and another by EA deadlines in mid-November), one of his friends asked me to help him with his essays. This was after he had been rejected by his top choice, an Ivy to which he applied ED. This kid comes from a family that, naively, believed their son would be a shoo-in at any school of his choosing. He had a very strong high school record, great test scores, and a huge range of ECs–this is the kid who participated in EVERYTHING. He is a very ambitious, confident kid with parents who have literally banked on their child attending a very prestigious university. But I honestly don’t think the family did any research on admission rates or encouraged their child to differentiate himself in any way. My suspicion was that he just didn’t stand out, despite being a great kid that everyone said “any college would want.”</p>

<p>After the first Ivy rejection, his mom sent me his common app essay and I started to understand what might have happened. It was immediately evident that the essay had been “frankensteined” with feedback from at least three opinionated adults. The voice changed throughout the piece, and it wasn’t well-edited. It didn’t sound sincere at all, and worst of all the whole premise was something that many people might find offensive. It was also HIGHLY embellished, to the point that I asked his mom why he wasn’t applying to creative writing programs, as he has such a vivid imagination.</p>

<p>Anyway, believing I had some magic powers (likely because my own child’s success rate was much higher–of course, he was not applying to the same kind of institutions), the family asked me to help with a whole pile of essays to the kid’s second-choice schools–which were all still huge reaches. We are talking non-HYP Ivies and a large number of other “top” universities–just a random list of impressive-sounding schools that he seemed to have no real interest in other than their perceived prestige. I did my best to make constructive suggestions, but tried also to be sensitive to his ego and make sure his voice was coming through in each piece. He got everything submitted, and started waiting.</p>

<p>Before long, rejection after rejection started to come in. I honestly was shocked at some of them, as were most people who knew him. He was left with only one halfway-acceptable choice–a school that is well-known, so it has a name that the general public thinks is “good,” but is probably not worth what most people pay for it. In any case, the kid reluctantly enrolled–using the “T” word before he even left home–and has been there since August.</p>

<p>Fast forward to now: he wants out. He thinks the kids aren’t that smart and the teaching uneven (I am sure in some cases he is right). He doesn’t like the culture or the bureaucracy. So he has asked me to look at a new batch of essays for his transfer applications. The problem is–the new list of schools is every bit as competitive as the ones he got rejected from last year. There’s another Ivy in the mix, and a few more from the top 20 or so that he hadn’t hit the first time. No LACs.</p>

<p>So my question is: should I just bite my tongue and give him positive (but helpful) feedback on the essays? Or should I encourage him to broaden his search and offer to help? It’s kind of none of my business, except that since I am committing to devoting half a day or so to helping him again…it kind of is.</p>

<p>Any guidance would be much appreciated. I care a lot about this kid and his family and would hate to see him disappointed again.</p>

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<p>Why don’t you ask him what he wants?</p>

<p>Sometimes when my d’s friends talk to me, and they do, for some reason, they just want me to listen. Sometimes they want advice.</p>

<p>I usually just ask, “Are you just wanting me to listen, or do you want me to give you my opinion?” Then, I always preface the advice with, “You don’t have to listen to me, I’m just one person with one set of thoughts on this, but…”</p>

<p>But I never give a kid, my own or anybody else’s, advice until I ask if it is what they really want.</p>

<p>YMMV</p>

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<p>“Should I be brutally honest with my son’s friend?” </p>

<p>No, IMHO</p>

<p>“I did my best to make constructive suggestions, but tried also to be sensitive to his ego . . .” YES - I think you took the right approach.</p>

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<p>I have no idea what to tell you but my first reaction is why is this seemingly very bright college kid asking anyone for help with his transfer apps?!?</p>

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<p>poetgrl…That’s such wonderful advice. It’s no wonder your daughter’s friends talk to you. :-)</p>

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<p>Haha emilybee…good question. I think at first his parents convinced him that I could help–I have experience as a professional writer/editor and, again, my son had a much higher success rate (but was less ambitious). This kid is fiercely independent, so where he really SHOULD have sought help (on deciding where to apply in the first place) he didn’t. Because he was considering the kind of schools his parents also dreamed of having him attend, they left him alone until it was pretty much too late. He had only two safeties, neither of which he took seriously at all.</p>

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<p>poetgrl: that is advice a lot of us could use in many aspects of our lives. Thank you.</p>

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<p>No wonder I’m a bit clueless here, I did the exact opposite of his parents - the only thing I did for my son was take him to see schools. Never even saw any of his apps or read any of his essays. After he was accepted (at every school he applied to) he told me he wrote the common app essay in 15 minutes. I found it later going through the getting into college stuff and read it. I am sure if I had seen it before he applied I would have made tons of suggestions and most likely ruined it.</p>

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<p>I think u should, that way he won’t be setting himself up for failure again. If he is so bright y is he asking for help? I did all my essays on my own. wat school is this?</p>

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<p>Poetgirl- sage advice!</p>

<p>OP- From what you’ve described, I doubt that any school will be a good fit for him right now, because he sounds like he does not know himself. (and there is nothing wrong with that, because he is young and it sounds like his parents are really not the type who are introspective, so where would he learn that from?) I would go through the motions, but maybe have him make of list of his likes and dislikes to see if you can get him to know himself a little more. The college process is a huge undertaking for anyone and since his parents lack education in higher education, it is lucky he has someone like you to help him sort it out. Some kids seem to luck out with a good fit and others struggle. Some kids just don’t have anyone to engage them in meaningful values and life goals conversations and then there are others who cannot listen. He is blessed to have you for sure! Someday he may come back and thank you.</p>

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<p>

One would think that your lack of success in getting him into his “top choice” schools last time would kind of discourage him from returning to you for more “help”. :)</p>

<p>In as much as he has come to you, I would try very hard to gently suggest some additional schools to which he might apply. That said, some of those schools stand on the numbers of the freshman class, of which he will not be a member as a transfer student. They may look rather more kindly at him now.</p>

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<p>marybee, you are very perceptive. He doesn’t yet know himself, in my opinion. And he has spent his whole life trying to measure up to societal and personal expectations.</p>

<p>sylvan, I thought the same thing. :slight_smile: I will try to have an actual discussion with him before I start doing anything (and also do what poetgrl suggests–find out what kind of help he is seeking). So far it’s been all email.</p>

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<p>I don’t correct other people’s essays. I’ve been asked to do so many times, and refuse. I do work with my kids’ essays in terms of blatent editing, but I keep the changes minimal and do not have them give them to others to edit either. </p>

<p>The reason I don’t is because really most of the time, it isn’t going to matter. To matter at a highly successful school requires an essay that hits the sweet spots in the way only when the writer owns it. On a 5 point scale, most essays are going ot be 3’s and very few are going to be 5s. I don’t think I could craft a 5 essay, and would be in danger of turning a 4 into a 3 with my middle aged tone.</p>

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<p>If the kid were just informing you of his intention to make transfer applications, there would be no need for you to opine, although you could mention that getting into a very selective school as a transfer is even more difficult than as a new student. Since he is asking for your help, you have the right to not waste your time on an effort that is likely to fail, so I think you should guide him toward less selective schools.</p>

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<p>^Agree. I really haven’t “corrected” anything besides grammar/syntax and other obvious errors that might detract from the finished product. I think on one last year I suggested reordering a couple of paragraphs, and after he did that he made a bunch more changes. This is a kid who really enjoys writing, by the way. That’s why I don’t know how he stood for the original groupthink on the common app essay. Once he stopped sharing them with his parents, the writing seemed more like him.</p>

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<p>He’s asking for help. I say give it to him.</p>

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<p>Beliavsky, is that true? Are the admission rates for transfers to Ivies and other top-20 universities lower than for freshmen? I haven’t really bothered to learn much about transfers since I just got through my first regular college-admissions cycle and (thankfully) my son is happy.</p>

<p>(And yes, I could do the research myself…but I am lazy.)</p>

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<p>Is it brutal to suggest a wider range of schools? I think it’s kind and helpful. I’ve done it for the children of friends and sometimes the ones I’ve suggested were the ones they got into and frankly the best fits anyway. This doesn’t sound as much like an essay problem as a picking good fits with some safeties problem.</p>

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<p>good point YDS. ;)</p>

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<p>I think I would be very honest. And I would be honest with HIM, as his parents may not want to hear your message. I would tell him that you are happy to help with his essays, BUT you are concerned that he is going to end up with the same result as before because his schools are all reaches. And if you do know him well… make a few suggestions of additional schools that might be a better fit, in your opinion. Then leave it at that, and help him with whichever essays he asks for help with.</p>

<p>Another option is to suggest to the family that they hire a professional college counselor instead of you. Who probably would give them the straight scoop if they think the kid is not going to get into the schools he is applying to.</p>