<p>YoHoHo, I agree. I am just hoping to limit my involvement to what I think I can help with–encouraging him to explore topics that will reveal more of who he is.</p>
<p>And the reason I asked about what kind of counseling compmom suggested is that I think the prestige fixation is something that would honestly be best explored with a psychologist. A college counselor, while definitely capable of helping this boy reevaluate his list and prepare himself better, is unlikely to convince anyone who cares deeply about it that it actually isn’t that important (or certainly shouldn’t be a primary motivation).</p>
<p>I am not sure if there is anything psychologically wrong with the parents or the kid. Not every time someone has a different view in life than you means there is fixing needed. </p>
<p>If the kid had B+ GPA and below 2000 SAT scores, and the kid is still pushing to get into a top 20 school, then I may say the kid is not being realistic.</p>
<p>I’m a psychologist and I have really been surprised by friends of mine who are not snobs at all (and in VT, we care less than other places in the NE, I think) to realize how much they care about the brand of where their kid goes to college. But they have listened to me and their kids have applied to schools off the beaten track and it has gone well. I’m retired, so it’s fun for me to help, but there is no help for the terminally snobbish. People who say Ivy like others might say God, I’m not sure what can be done.</p>
<p>Good point, oldfort. I wasn’t trying to suggest that there is anything inherent wrong with their position. It’s basically like religion–a firmly held belief system. And I am not familiar enough with college counselors to know how much a good one can do to broaden someone’s point of view.</p>
<p>College counselors come in all sorts. But they earn their keep doing it. Some are crappy, more bluster than savvy. But when parents are so off, the kid may not be clear on goals, process and presentation, maybe a pro beats the son’s friend’s mom trying to fill those shoes.
In fairness to this kid, are you really the right resource? This isn’t some ordinary situation. I honestly don’t know if you CAN help him to the extent he needs</p>
<p>This just makes it so personal for the parents to admit that their preparations have not necessarily produced a young adult who is going to get admitted to a top college. I really think you should tell them to hire a professional college counselor if they want a chance for their son to gain admissions to this type of college. You can use the excuse that you really weren’t working with your kids on “elite” colleges, and don’t feel like you can do the job justice.</p>
<p>IMO, it might be helpful to direct him as to how to do his research. Don’t do it for him. We don’t know where he currently attends (not that it matters, but would be helpful to know what school is, in his experience, not providing the kind of education he desires) or his GPA (that does matter). He should be looking at not only the transfer acceptance rates (and yes, some are quite low), but also whether they offer what he plans to study, how good that department is, etc. Does he care if it is big/small, urban/rural, has/doesnt greek life, sports teams with school spirit, etc?</p>
<p>Sounds like he is a good kid who wasn’t given much direction with the college process, but still seems to be caught up in the prestige/“what will look good as a car window decal” thing, or is feeling the pressure from his parents. </p>
<p>I think to be helpful these might be the things for him to look into and think about. Not just putting a new application together and throwing it at the wall to see what sticks.</p>
<p>Not your kid… doing a favor, more or less. In a tight spot for sure. But if I was a parent with a very independent kid (of which I am) and I thought you might be helpful for where I am not, I would definitely HOPE you were being honest with him and not sugar coating life too frosty. If he has all the numbers, classes and EC’s, it’s the essay’s right? Well, you don’t have to write or edit for the guy, but you could get him started in a better direction if you think his essay’s and Short answer are where he falls down. Editing work that’s subpar just results in edited crap IMO. You job is not to protect his feelings, but I agree I would preface an opinion with the question of whether or not he wants it, and if he doesn’t, you do not have any obligation to waste your time.</p>
<p>I think people get wrapped up in the competitive nature of this. They know someone who’s kid got into a great college and they think “my kid is smarter and more special than that kid, they should go to a better or just as good college”. They get caught up in it. Everyone thinks their kid is smarter and more special than the neighbor’s kid.</p>
<p>My MIL talked about how the neighbor kid got into Harvard (my H’s age). My grandson is so smart and special, he should have no problem.</p>
<p>I agree with oldfort. I also think there’s an element of crapshoot in the admissions game. This kid’s numbers out of high school certainly look like he could have been accepted at a high-level school and I understand the disappointment. The truth is there are some liberal arts colleges looking for boys with good stats and good writing ability who might have taken him out of high school and they should have been on his initial list. (Also, he ignored the #1 cc commandment which is love they safety.) Now, most of those schools are out-of-reach because they are small and retain so many of their students that they have space for very few. </p>
<p>There’s no harm in trying but he needs to cull his ec list, write great essays and target the right schools. YoHoYoHo’s list is excellent but doing it well sounds like professional counselor time to me. I would call the friend and be brutally honest by telling them that his numbers really were in the ballpark the first time but transfers are harder and you don’t have expertise in knowing why he didn’t make it through out of high school and what he needs to do now nor what schools are within target.</p>
<p>I too love Poetgirl’s advice!. If he wants advice you can give it.</p>
<p>One thing that strikes me is that many kids aren’t happy their first semester. Is the problem really the school, an image problem or is it really a bad fit? It seems like this kid needs to talk that through with someone if he hasn’t. I would expect that teaching is “uneven” at most schools. He might need more of a lesson in seeking out the better profs for him and the community he is looking for than an actual transfer since it seems he decided this school was wrong before he even got there. Don’t get me wrong, the school might be wrong, but it might also be that he decided that before even giving it a chance.</p>
<p>The other thing that I wonder is if he is just picking brand names or if he really knows anything about the schools he is applying to. I would want to ask him why he selected the schools he is choosing. If he shows some depth in his reasoning and if you have the knowlege of less compeititve schools that have similar characteristics you can share that. You can ask if he is aware of the admission stats for transfers to the schools he is applying to. I find that that this is very sobering and it makes a rejection easier to take when you understand your odds. When my S and I began the college search we knew nothing and began with the Princeton Review guide to colleges. It was a quick and dirty way to narrow down the choices. When my S applied to competitive schools I thought it was important that he know that every one was a reach. Not because he didn’t have the stats but because there were limited spaces, many kids with great stats, and it is impossible to know exactly what will be striking to the individual reading the application. I know this is obvious but it is easy for some kids to forget that sometimes rejections say more about the specifics of what the admissions committee wants than it does about the student who was rejected. He should know that helps to cast a wide net to a range of schools with characteristics that he can love. If nothing else he probably knows more about what he doesn’t like now than before he went to college.</p>
<p>Thanks for the link, texas, and for the kind words, spectrum et al.</p>
<p>I had a pretty honest talk with the young man last night. Instead of focusing on what schools he wants to try to transfer to, I suggested he take a step back and try to think about the long view. As others have speculated, he just doesn’t know what he wants (or in some ways, who he is) so he has so far defaulted to “I’m going to just go to the school with the best name”). But really, what’s the point of transferring if the current university offers the ability to explore different interests (it does, to a large degree) and he doesn’t totally hate it? He is reasonably settled, he has friends, he knows how to navigate the system, and it’s a known entity.</p>
<p>Since he is sort of all over the map with his academic interests–typical among smart, well-rounded 18-year-olds, in my experience–I emphasized how the sincerity of his interest in a particular school or program HAS to come through in his application. And his voice and personality also have to come through. I suggested he write about “small” things this time around–things that give a glimpse into who he is but don’t try to summarize his entire life to date or make broad, sweeping statements about his background. But for now I am stepping back and allowing him to spend a few weeks really thinking about what he wants and why.</p>
<p>I also spoke to his mom and suggested she help him by finding a college counselor before anyone starts paying for transfer applications (or invests a lot of time). She didn’t seem to know much about his plans–kind of like the last time.</p>
<p>Yay, Sally!! Great advice. I especially like the point about writing about what seems like a “small” thing to let the as com get to know his personality more.</p>
<p>“Good independent college counselors are highly skilled in that sort of psychology!”</p>
<p>That, and sometimes it’s easy. Sometimes kids react with so much relief when they hear someone say that it’s OK not to make themselves miserable over Ivy admissions. It’s like they’ve been waiting for permission to let go of the obsession.</p>