<p>I’m hoping to have a call with him this weekend and learn more about his plans and why he thinks he is a viable candidate for the schools/programs he is considering. He is pretty sensitive under all the bravado, so I will be gentle.</p>
<p>Thank you all again so much for the great advice.</p>
<p>It’s also true that once the “culling” occurs…all the partiers that flunk out, when you’re not living in a freshman dorm and attending all intro classes, that the pace and difficulty pick up. If this kid has decided he can never be happy at his college, there may be no convincing him otherwise. Additionally, does the kid intend to go to grad school? If so, getting spectacular grades and doing great things in his area of interest as an undergrad can open a lot of doors for him too.</p>
<p>Mostly, the reality is that it is a sheer numbers game…and they are more against him now that when he was applying for undergrad to begin with.</p>
<p>I dont see it as your responsibility to be honest. However, you do want to be realistic about how much effort you would want to put in here knowing some schools might be a lottery while others might actually have reasonable number of spots to make it realistic. Make sure he does his research into these numbers and concentrates on schools which do encourage transfers. </p>
<p>I did hear Harvard kicked out 65 students this year though on plagiarism charges! I assume those openings reflect for juniors.</p>
<p>^^^It is like reading NYC obituaries to find out apartment vacancies. :)</p>
<p>^Lately I seem to get all my news from CC and someone posted a story today about forced withdrawals!</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/2/1/cheating-scandal-smith-withdraw/[/url]”>http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/2/1/cheating-scandal-smith-withdraw/</a></p>
<p>My understanding is that the students who were required to withdraw only had to do so for a semester or 2. I do not think anyone was required to permanently withdraw from the University.</p>
<p>"Required to withdraw " and can petition for reinstatement after at least one term out. Not expelled. That “apt” may only be avail for short term sublet.</p>
<p>Just found a nice little chart that might be useful…</p>
<p>http://***********.com/stats/transfer-acceptance-rates/#.UQyD93hEtSU</p>
<p>Unless they were forced to leave this semester and asked to come back in fall, I am interpreting them as vacancies in fall in the junior year class. </p>
<p>What do they do with those openings in fall if students should not be coming back during fall? It is no different than people in a particular school year leaving.</p>
<p>OP- I know you are trying to be helpful but IMO kids should write their own essays and not have any input/corrections from anyone. I know colleges suggest having someone proofread them. But I don’t agree with that. Do High School kids normally have someone proofread their english papers before they turn them in? I hope not. No one read my son essay’s before he put them in the applications. I figured they needed to be his work not a group project. If they can’t do it on their own for the application, what are they going to do when they get into college?</p>
<p>I would politely decline. I agree with other posters. Even if they haven’t blamed you for last years results they may blame you for the next round.</p>
<p>Op,
I would decline and direct him to a consultant.
I evaluate apps from the other side (health related) and it truly is rather lottery-like because different qualities and attributes appeal to different readers. Therefore, both you and he do not know what about his previous app did not appeal to whoever read it, and there’s no way to know for this upcoming round as well (if acceptance rates are single digit). Yes, the essay is important, but so is everything else.</p>
<p>Other points that I agree with other posters:
<p>If you absolutely cannot stop yourself from helping him, then you owe to him to be as honest as possible. Not necessarily a pessimist with the stats of acceptance, but in talking with him in general. If you are sugarcoating it, you are not really helping at all (except helping him to feel better).</p>
<p>If you have to help, the better things would be to help with big picture things but he does all the details with no editing from you. Basically, you would be involved in the front end, not the back end.
<p>Again, I would direct him to a consultant instead to help him with points 1-4. And frankly, to do a proper job on these self-evaluations and brainstorming takes lots of time; it’s not really a “half a day” type of involvement.</p>
<p>I think that this family is missing the big picture. There is probably no legitimate reason for this young man to even be leaving the school where is attending. It sounds like he wants more “prestige” and cannot settle in because he feels that the his current school does not give him that kind of glamor.</p>
<p>I honestly think the parents should encourage him to stay and work things out at his current school. Much better life lesson, to make it work where you are. It is highly doubtful that peers or classes are beneath him in any way. There are imperfections everywhere and it is part of maturity to negotiate them.</p>
<p>I think the parents, and perhaps the son, seem so obsessed with prestige that perhaps they could benefit from counseling. The parents may have caused this obsession in the young man, so if they got counseling, perhaps a new, healthier attitude will trickle down.</p>
<p>What does it accomplish for the parents, to have their son at a prestigious school? Because in terms of education, a student can get a great education almost anywhere, through hard work and interest. There is something else at work. Do they think he will make more money and have a more stable life? Do they have a family pride issue, where the school he attends reflects back on them with family and friends? Is the kid a trophy son who makes up for some family dysfunction? Are the parents not well-educated themselves, and lack knowledge of the quality if schools that are not Ivy-caliber? Did the parents miss out in some way in their own lives, that they want the son to compensate them for? You get the idea.</p>
<p>There is something wrong with this picture, and it has nothing to do with essays.</p>
<p>I think you raise some very good questions compmom, ones that I have wondered about myself. But on the other hand, you have a boy who, for whatever reason, sincerely believes that he belongs in a more competitive school. I do admire his persistence and resilience.</p>
<p>Believing what he believes, he has little chance of making his current environment work for him. As adults, we can see that perhaps his thinking may be unrealistic or misguided, but that doesn’t change his reality. So if I were in OP’s shoes I would try to work the angle of getting his parents to convince him to submit apps to schools above where he is attending, but not to all tippy top schools where he was already unsuccessful. Perhaps some middle ground will be achieved that will allow this boy to enjoy his college experience.</p>
<p><sigh> Yes, compmom, I fear a lot of the issues you raise are going on. The boy has a younger sibling who is also beginning to exhibit a ridiculous level of competitiveness and even panic over not doing as well as peers who are doubling up on advanced classes and “raising the bar” on academic achievement early in high school. I don’t know why the older child’s experience wouldn’t serve as a giant red flag for the younger one who is so far on the same path, but it seems to be happening based on what I have heard from the mom.</sigh></p>
<p>I take your reference to “counseling” to mean personal counseling, not college counseling, correct? I agree that there are a LOT of underlying issues. I have tried to subtly raise them with the mom but it’s hard. There are a lot of rigidly held beliefs that seem immutable even in the face of ample evidence that plenty of people–including many we know in common–have done extremely well without having top-tier undergraduate degrees. Neither parent went to a prestigious university, but they have done EVERYTHING over the lives of their children to prepare them for “higher” achievements.</p>
<p>YoHoHo, thanks for your succinct list. I am going to start with #3 when I talk with him. The one essay I have seen so far is still too much like those in last year’s first round.</p>
<p>Don’t think you can fix this for them. Do understand the urge to get involved. </p>
<p>Early on, when I first saw some of your posts, it was clear you had an understanding of the college process. But, like most of us, that has limits. I’m being straightforward, but: you can’t be expected to check for transfer rates, figure out which may want him, figure out what sorts of “why us?” work for what colleges (this takes research, too) and then help him tailor and all the etceteras.</p>
<p>There are times when we need to say, “I am sorry, but I’m not the right person to help.” “My experience is limited to helping my son last year, with a different sort of colleges.”</p>
<p>Also wonder if you should get kiddo to post on CC. Parents forum, “Am I thinking this through clearly?”</p>
<p>There are a lot of students who want to go to those highly competitive schools for a reason, most of the time it is about better quality of education and better options after graduation. I think people are over thinking it. The kid had good enough stats to get into those top tier schools, but for whatever reason he missed it for the first time and he wants to try again. There is nothing wrong with that. My guess is it was probably his essays, bad advise from some adults. I would tell him/his parents to hire someone to advise him on his essay content.</p>
<p>My son was a top-stats kid, but fortunately wanted small LAC, or maybe I steered him in that direction. There are amazing schools at all levels of selectivity in this category, especially if one is geographically flexible. Actually there are great options in larger Us too. I constructed a great safety list for a neighbor’s D last year who wanted a larger U, but if this student and family insist on a list of 8 schools or 20 because of USN rankings or other prestige factors, I think there could be another disappointment this round. My friends who have asked for my help have listened to my input.</p>
<p>“I take your reference to “counseling” to mean personal counseling, not college counseling, correct?”</p>
<p>I, and I think some of the other posters, were talking about college counseling. You as a volunteer friend shouldn’t have to bear the brunt of things like expectation management, suggesting that he apply to lower-ranked schools than his dream targets, etc. That’s tough stuff. The only folks who can do that without getting a lot of anger/defensiveness in response are parents and professionals (even we still get the anger sometimes, but a big part of our job is minimizing and wrangling it).</p>
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<p>Yes. And that person can make sure his list is reasonable. This shouldn’t be your responsibility. You’ll feel awful if he bombs again in Round 2.</p>
<p>I agree with looking forward.
If this kid (and family) has spent 4 to 12 years working towards a “prestigious” uni, and if they really care about this so much, then they owe it to themselves to invest the money and hire a professional college consultant. To figure out kids needs, wants, which colleges will accept transfers, acceptance rates, and then to step back and try to “package” what he has to fullfill these goals or try to tell him that he can’t reach these goals with what shows on his resume…all of this takes a lot of time and is usually better handled with a parent, themselves, or a professional college counselor.</p>
<p>Sally, trying to working on #3 above without working on #1-4 will likely not get him the result that he is looking for. It’s like a sprinter only working out his legs, but he really needs to work out both his arms and core as well.</p>