<p>mominva, read back a bit. I didn’t suggest talking to his mother. I am saying don’t talk to her. Someone else suggested the OP call the other kids mother…</p>
<p>Sorry,ebeeeee, I thought you were disagreeing with my post immediately above yours.</p>
<p>My instincts followed Chedva’s, but my fear is that D is playing with fire and doesn’t realize she could get burned (or hurt someone else). </p>
<p>I had considered calling PG and reminding him that D is only 15 and we will do whatever necessary to protect her, but I didn’t think we had reached that point yet. PG knows we don’t approve because D told him I was on her case about the number of text messages (yes, I read that text). I don’t think contacting PG’s mom will help… per D, PG got into some of his trouble due to a bad home situation, including an ugly divorce when he was 13. Dad may be a substance user, but mom and step-dad sound more stable and PG has apparently cut ties with his dad. I think with the court date, etc, the last thing his mom worry about would be him talking online with a 15 year old who lives 400 miles away - she’s probably thrilled that he’s home instead of out getting in trouble. </p>
<p>Muffy… lol, but you’re right. S attends college only 100 miles from PG’s town. D asked if she could drive to visit her brother after she gets her license. We said NO. She only visits him WITH us, and she’s so involved in EC’s she hardly ever has a free weekend anyway.</p>
<p>mom, no problem. cross-posted. I just wanted to make sure no one thought I was advocating calling the mother. Keeping my online persona intact…lol.</p>
<p>Go with your gut feeling. I feel that I am a pretty good judge of character. When I was 16 I had a 17 y/o bf who was a pretty good kid. He had a friend who was 15, but looked like he was in his 20s (very full unshaven beard). Anyway, my mother had a problem with the 15 y/o friend. She could not be specific, but did not want me around him and warned me that there was just something that was “off”. I could not see it. PS, the 15 y/o turned out to be dangerous and committed a violent crime and ended up in jail for many years. This occured one or two years after I saw him last. I thought, wow, I could have been a victim. I did not see it coming. I saw no red flags. My mother was right. Even in retrospect I could not find any red flags.</p>
<p>It does not cost much to take a bus 400 miles: $72 nonrefundable from Washington DC to Boston (455 miles). Therefore, the possibility of one or the other getting on that bus must be kept in mind imo. PG might even find it convenient to be out-of-town on certain court dates. And, of course, PG could show up uninvited.</p>
<p>The situation isn’t necessarily going to get ugly and dangerous, but imo the possibility is there. If DD is taking on an “adult” online persona, she may unwittingly be increasing the danger.</p>
<p>More generally, in the next few years there are likely going to be many situations in which DD will have opportunities to make very poor, dangerous, and/or life-changing decisions. If/when you feel unusually concerned, worried, anxious, frightened, and/or powerless in guiding her, then imo family therapy would be worth considering.</p>
<p>Set aside the actual age difference. A 15-year-old girl and an 18-year-old boy may be at similar emotional levels, especially if the boy has had a chaotic home life. The difference really is about being in different phases of life, and your concerns about this guy being a negative influence.</p>
<p>Apparently they are both getting something out of the relationship, otherwise they wouldn’t still be in contact. They may be giving each other advice. IMO, texting and internet conversations can become much more intimate than phone calls. Responses can be thoughtfully considered and edited for just the right tone, helping to create a more ideal version of oneself. True for both keyboards. The chances of idealization are great. So, just because they haven’t racked up big cell phone bills doesn’t mean much.</p>
<p>What is a difference between them, is that your daughter is still in high school and has 2-1/2 more years of the high school experience to live to the fullest. If she is online with this guy, at the expense of focusing on her own bf and friends and academics and activities, then that is a problem for right now. Probably you’d prefer to have her enjoy all of her high school activities with kids who are also in the same phase of their life, i.e., high school students. If an 18-year-old boy in your own town, with a history of substance abuse and a police record, started calling on your daughter, how would you feel? What would you do? In this case, because the boy is unknown to you, your community, and your daughter’s circle of friends, there are no social reinforcements to define the situation, such as her girlfriends disapproving or your family being aware of the boy’s circle of friends or lawless behavior. If only it were easy or effective to forbid contact, take away her phone and computer, call the boy and his mother, etc. It’s not that easy. If she wants to contact him, she’ll find a way. The daughter has to be the one to decide to end contact, and then once she makes that decision, stick with her plan. </p>
<p>It is not fair to the local boyfriend, and that might be a good direction to pursue. Right now she might feel she has the best of all worlds, with a local boyfriend to do things with, who is integrated into her high school social environment, plus an internet soulmate type boyfriend, with whom she can daydream about being together when she is older. What does she particularly like about PG? What does she admire, ask her to describe him, ask her how he is supportive of her ideas, is he motivated, what are his projects and activities, etc. Ask her the same questions about her local boyfriend. If PG visited, how would he fit in with her friends? If your daughter is active and motivated, and PG is in his room alot playing video games and talking online, then he could well be a drain on her momentum. If on the other hand, he is some sort of motivating force, then that is different.</p>
<p>He’s not that far away, so what has stopped him from travelling the 400 miles to see her? Maybe he can’t get it together, or is lazy, or isn’t that into her. Regardless, you can be sure that he knows quite a bit about her, her family, her daily routine, her likes and dislikes, etc. Yikes. What if he talks a couple of buddies into a road trip to visit your daughter and shows up one day with a lowlife friend or two? Or even a nice friend or two? It’s good that he wants to make better choices, and wants to turn his life around, but sheesh, how about with someone else. He is a high school graduate, so his friends are likely to include college-age and older people rather than high school sophomores and juniors. That’s a whole different social scene. Best case scenario for him is that he gets a local girlfriend who starts to take up all his time and emotional energy. That will hurt your daughter’s feelings but would be better for him and better for her. </p>
<p>How are her relationships with her girlfriends? Is she looking for someone to talk to? Does she seem intense about this friendship? Has it impacted the way she feels about, or treats, her local boyfriend?</p>
<p>It’s a tough situation. I guess if it were my daughter, I’d try to remain calm but share my honest concerns about this guy. I’d have your husband do the same. I’d do that both via conversation and also leaving notes for her. I’d leave her newspaper clippings and articles about internet intimacy. I’d try to make it an ongoing conversation but absolutely encourage two-way conversation. I’d try to articulate to her my impressions of her potential and her expectations of her trajectory from the present through high school and into college. How is he good for her? How is she good for him? What is best for each of them? I’d ask her to help me understand the significance of their friendship and really help her to comb through what she knows about him to see if this guy is really someone she wants to be friends with.</p>
<p>The more you can “pull” the relationship off the computer monitor and text-message screen, and shine some light on it, the better. The private relationship they share one-on-one may not stand up to real life. Everything she learns about herself during this time, she will take forward with her.</p>
<p>no idea what the ages of the other posters have been, but let me throw you another scenario from a 19 yr old that has had slightly older friends for quite some time.</p>
<p>400 miles is pretty significant: if she has a boyfriend and friends and a loving family and she’s really busy with extracurriculars and she’s involved with school, i cannot possibly see her going to visit him. i suppose he could come to visit her, but i really don’t see that happening so i’m just not even going to consider it.</p>
<p>IMs/TXT msgs: corranged sort of touched on online relationships in a previous post, but another thing to consider is that it’s one hell of a lot easier to talk to a somewhat anonymous person over a computer than it is to talk to anyone face to face. if your daughter is being honest with you about PG wanting to turn his life around (seems reasonable), perhaps he just has a lot on his plate and needs someone willing to listen for him to bounce ideas off of. i can definitely recall certain online conversations i’ve had that i’m glad were online rather than face-to-face (the opportunity to deal with emotions privately rather than in someone else’s company come to mind). perhaps he is just looking for someone to talk to? i wouldn’t automatically discredit her admission that it’s completely innocent: i’m sure there’s a lot more to this friendship than you realize, and it seems unlikely that your daughter would try to dupe you. you seem like a very astute parent that could figure out her little shenanigans.</p>
<p>age gap: is a sophomore being friends with a senior really that unheard of? i knew many seniors when i was a sophomore and, though i only really hung out with them at school, really valued their opinions. are your daughter and her older brother close? maybe PG provides an escape for her…someone to vent to about the woes of high school life, someone to provide an alternate view on a particular dramatastic situation, someone to empathize with her and provide scope that her problems aren’t so bad and that there are people out there that are worse off than she is. if she and her big bro are close, though, i would assume she could get a similar effect from him and then would worry why she chooses PG over big bro. would you prohibit her from hanging out with seniors at home? i’m sure she knows many upperclassmen. also, take into account their meeting. since the pair met on vacation, age wasn’t really an issue. there’s a chance that they became friends despite their age gap, and while it matters to you it doesn’t matter to her. this is definitely the case with me and a few of my older friends (whom i mostly met at work or through friends’ siblings, etc).</p>
<p>romance: while there is definitely the allure of the older guy, from reading your posts and replies it seems that your daughter is very happy with her current boyfriend. she most likely has her head on her shoulders and realizes that a relationship online/via txt msgs cannot work, especially because she’s had a healthy long term relationship already. i would not worry about this becoming a huge romantic problem. it is somewhat strange that the boyfriend doesn’t know about PG, but maybe the boyfriend is the jealous type that wouldn’t understand the innocence of PG without actually knowing him. then again, if your daughter and her boyfriend have a solid relationship, he should trust her enough not to be threatened by PG. ask her about why she hasn’t told him.</p>
<p>sexy/beautiful/handsome: most likely a reassurance, compliment, or just some cyber flirting. while probably not the most prudent thing to say when one has a real life boyfriend, it doesn’t seem like a huge threat to their relationship. probably shouldn’t be cause for much alarm.</p>
<p>forbidding anything: she will find a way. it’s incredible you guys are close enough to talk about her online friends (my mom doesn’t really care about my online activities) so rather than forbidding it i would just keep your eye on the situation.</p>
<p>i guess i’m going against the rest of the crowd when i say trust your daughter. you’ve already met the kid on vacation, so you don’t have to worry about him being a predator. you know he’s far away, so you don’t really have to worry about them meeting up. you know he’s messed up (at least they’re honest!) and that he intends to turn his life around (difficult, i’m sure) and probably needs a lot of help and support that he’s had trouble finding in the past. if you want to get more involved and you and your daughter are close, ask her about what he’s going through. maybe you will be able to offer advice that she can relay to him–i can’t imagine how much more difficult my life would be without my parents, even though sometimes they aren’t super involved. just make sure you’re available to her and that she knows you won’t chastise her for being friends with him. that way, when she encounters a problem with him, she’ll ask you for help rather than doing something destructive.</p>
<p>remember that being 15 now is a lot more difficult than many people want to admit. changing bodies, environments, friends, and families can make growing up incredibly tumultuous. add to that the frequency of divorce (he did mention that his parents are no longer together), the instability of some schools, the ability of drugs and alcohol, and the vast amount of technology and i’m sure you’ll agree that being a teenager can be a lot more stressful than just having to juggle tests, friends, and a part time job. perhaps having a constant friend that’s only a few clicks away provides some relief from normal life for her.</p>
<p>keep being a good mom! your daughter seems fine.</p>
<p>If you feel that you can’t influence your daughter, try to bring her older brother into the picture. Tell him that you’re worried about her, so he can try talking to her from an older, caring boy’s perspective. Older siblings are less of an authority figure than parents, but they can be very influential because of that. He can relate to his sister better since they’re close in age.</p>
<p>Stop this today. Your daughter needs therpy whether she likes it or not.</p>
<p>If my 15 year old D was lying to a boyfriend it would meaan big red flags. This is a character issue I would want to right before she grows any older and it effects her life.</p>
<p>The part about the 18 year old boy would require no discussion in my house. The cell would be gone if there was a single call after the one to say good bye and good luck.</p>
<p>eeek. i’m 17, and i must say, don’t send your daughter to therapy, mostly because you are prying into her personal life more than any child would want you to, and she seems like a good kid. there is a stigma attached to therapy as a teenager, and forcing your child to see one when they have not done anything wrong is like telling your child they are failing at life. now if she hopped on a bus and went 400+ miles to see this guy than absolutely send her to a therapist, but otherwise don’t. </p>
<p>the biggest problem here is she’s cheating on her boyfriend. yes, what she is doing is cheating in my book. however, kristin’s post is spot on with everything. that is how you should handle the situation. </p>
<p>and you should not be too worried about the age- while that is obviously one of his appealing factors, the fact is that she sounds mature enough to flirt with or possibly have a relationship with an older boy. i’ve had friends who, at 15, have dated older than 18. their parents know about it and accept it because a) they never had sex or went beyond kissing and b) they were very mature. now the substance abuse is a different thing, if you were to be worried about anything it would be that.</p>
<p>and ceebrown- speaking from the perspective as a teenager, if you did that she would definitely rebel. the fact that he is off-limits would just add to his appeal, and the flirting would intensify if anything.</p>
<p>I too am a teenager. I agree that ceebrown’s advice (no offense ceebrown) is way way way too drastic. Therapy for lying? As if no adolescent has ever lied or cheated on a boyfriend/girlfriend before! I’m not condoning dishonest behavior. I’m just saying…your daughter is clearly very much a kid, no matter how old she looks or acts, and she still needs you to teach her to tell right from wrong and act on it. Taking away her cell phone and carting her off to therapy would demonstrate nothing but fear on your part. She’s just 15. You don’t have to be scared yet!</p>
<p>Sorry kids, a 15 year old girl has no business with an 18 year old boy or any boy who has already proven to be bad news. You’ll understand when you’re parents or maybe live with it yourself. In my book it’s simple, the parents must guide the children and keep them safe until they develop good judgement.</p>
<p>Dukie11, 15 year olds should have developed character and understand cheating is wrong. This is why colleges are so harsh on kids caught cheating academically. Cheaters don’t get far in life. Caring parents will work on this when seeing a child thinks this is OK. It’s a serious problem. The “lots of kids cheating” are our future jail and low wage job population. I would be scared now.</p>
<p>Well, I agree with you completely that she shouldn’t be talking to the guy, just not with the method you would use to protect the kid. If I were in such a situation, in retrospect I would probably be grateful if my parents did what you did but until I got to that point I would just resent my parents and hide more things from them, possibly endangering myself in the process. Hell, that’s my life.</p>
<p>Hold on kids, the idea that bothers the mother isn’t necessarily the age gap it’s the fact that this guy has a criminal problem and a record of substance abuse. Hello? Red Flag anybody? The reason some of the parents suggested therapy is because there is something about a young girl this age being interested in someone with that background that is concerning. As I stated in my first post I knew someone with a daughter in a similar situation. The parents talked to her etc. The situation became fairly critical and years later they are still dealing with repercussions.<br>
What the parents who suggest therapy are suggesting is family counseling to talk about the dynamic that makes this relationship appealing in any way to this girl. If I asked my daughter that age about someone similar to the guy the OP describes, she would want nothing to do with the guy.</p>
<p>Does your daughter know that you are reading her text messages?</p>
<p>^Does it matter? It’s not like the daughter is being perfectly honest here. She’s deleting the texts so she knows she’s doing something wrong. I wouldn’t want my parents reading my texts but if I were doing something they considered dangerous then even I would have to say that I’d have no right to claim privacy.</p>
<p>At the same time I think parents are overly cautious. Many of my friends drink and do drugs here at Duke (and many of my friends did in high school), and I’m sure my parents would be appalled if they found out I associated with them. They would fear that I had no self-control and was endangered. Nope, I’m pretty much substance-free. I have close friends who’ve been in trouble with the law at age 16 and 17, but they’re just kids too at that age. They’re not evil criminals out to get me. My parents raised me right somehow so I’m not about to go copy them. If my parents found out and cut off my contact with them, I’d be furious. Do you parents really want to give me more room to identify with troubled kids?</p>
<p>“If only it were easy or effective to forbid contact, take away her phone and computer, call the boy and his mother, etc. It’s not that easy. If she wants to contact him, she’ll find a way.” EXACTLY, Speckledegg. Last winter when I took D to a therapist, it was because she said she was depressed and I was concerned about the intensity of her relationship with BF. The therapist told us, “Look, if your daughter decides to have sex with BF, you can lock her in a cage, but she will find a way to have sex with him.” </p>
<p>What I’m trying to do is find a way to convince HER to end this online relationship, and to get PG to understand that it is OVER, we all wish him best of luck in his future but D won’t be a part of it.</p>
<p>Keshira, you also hit a very sensitive note around here. Last winter I began reading her texts and IMs because I was so worried about her. When D found out she went ballistic. I think my actions were justifiable, but D did have a point. She is entitled to some privacy - but I am responsible for keeping her safe. I promised I would stop reading her texts and IMs, but a week or two ago I told her that I reserved the right to start reading them again if I think there is anything fishy going on. </p>
<p>As dukie said, “I would just resent my parents and hide more things from them, possibly endangering myself in the process.” I’m walking a fine line here, trying to guide her into making the right decision for herself without making her so angry that she starts hiding things from me. I want her to trust me, but I need to know enough about what is REALLY being said between D and PG so that I know what’s going on. D already calls me “stalker mom.” The truth is, at least 75% of the parents I know would have NO idea if their child was doing what D is doing - most parents I know don’t even understand how AIM works, and my brother-in-law admitted he doesn’t even know how to get to the text messages on his son’s phone, let alone read them.</p>
<p>I think it’s important to remember that D had no idea what type of guy PG was when she met him at the pool. She met him at Disney, for heaven’s sake! He looked like an athlete and had just graduated from hs - she had no idea of the stuff he was involved with until after we got home and they were talking, and at that point I suspect she thought she already knew the real/better him. </p>
<p>The more I think about this and about D’s behavior lately, with her friends, her bf, her general demeanor, her grades, EC’s… I really think that for her this is a fun fantasy relationship that she engages in when she’s bored (or angry with me). My biggest concern is whether or not PG sees it the same way. I’m just concerned that he will try to come visit her when he gets the money, or that he thinks they have some sort of future together. D is a total optimist - she thinks she can play with fire without getting burned. Like most teens, she thinks she has things under control, and has no real idea of the trouble she could be getting herself into. I’m trying to get that point across to her without coming across as the “old-fuddy-duddy who has no idea what I’m talking about.”</p>
<p>In these situations, I stress that it’s not okay for 18 year olds to pursue 15 year olds, and that “the right decision” for an 18 year old is not to be pursuing a 15 year old. If PG is trying to make better decisions, one he can make is to not pursue someone younger than him. With my children, I repeatedly stressed that when someone is picking a younger person over someone their age, it can be about not having the emotional maturity to be with people their own age, and “do you really want to be close to someone who is too emotionally immature to be successful with their peers?” </p>
<p>This came up for us a few times outside of my children, because a girl they used to live with before changing custody dates a family friend who is 4 years older (I think they started when she was 12 and he was 16). So we spent a lot of time talking about why I had a problem with it, why I was not okay with it for them, and setting upper and lower bounds for relationships. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I also know that I am considered <em>very</em> strict by my children about this, compared to their friends’ parents. My children know they have no expectation of privacy on our home network, and that their chat logs, email, and phone messages can be checked if need be. We also keep logs of internet activity on our gateway server. Of course, we’re at the high end of “net-savvy” and tend to be able to do things most parents aren’t aware of. </p>
<p>My response to “chatting with someone inappropriate” was to turn off the net access. My response to “secretly meeting with a girl on the weekends” was to ground my son for 4 months. About this, I am hardcore.</p>
<p>Concerned, I believe most kids have a big enough family bond to not risk cutting off from parents. My kids have dreams that require parental support. Little ones like going to the mall with spending money tomorrow and big ones like ivy college paid for.</p>
<p>I would never hesitate to do what’s best because I fear their reaction. We can work through it as a family. Good luck!</p>