<p>soze, it might add some additional perspective to the discussion if you shared the views of your son’s other parent with us. It would be interesting to see what another adult close to the situation thinks.</p>
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Since no one posting here and no stats will convince you that you’ve overblown the ‘danger’ of a 10 day trip in Israel, since you seem un-budging on this point, there’s probably not much point to most of this thread.</p>
<p>Only you can decide if you want to withhold college funding as a means to coerce him to comply with what you want him to comply with. I don’t think there’s a single poster here who supports you using that method for a situation like this but it’s your money and you can do what you want with it even if it means severely alienating your S and perhaps derailing his education and impacting his future in the event that the coercion fails.</p>
<p>It is quite feasible for American citizens to travel to North Korea these days. It is VERY safe and if it means no less to him than Israel, it could be a good choice for the OP to suggest to his son.</p>
<p>Say it’s a done deal. You agonize every day for 3 months. Though you think it will, it doesn’t actually kill you. </p>
<p>He leaves in March. He goes on the trip and falls in love with a lovely soldier and has the time of his life. He comes home still alive. </p>
<p>So have you decided? Are you going to cut him off?</p>
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<p>What is often forgotten is that there are also viewpoints that are pro-Israel, but anti-current-Israeli-government-policy (and similarly, pro-Palestinian, but anti-PA-and/or-Hamas-policy), which seem to be unrecognized or shouted down by the noisiest voices (on both sides) in any Israeli/Palestinian discussion or debate. Usually, the noisiest voices mostly like to talk anti-Palestinian or anti-Israeli, painting the other side as incorrigible vicious terrorists or oppressors, etc… Indeed, their heads would probably explode at the concept of being both pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian simultaneously.</p>
<p>^excellent post ucb</p>
<p>I can’t help but notice that although the safety issues were raised, that whole area of discussion feels like a wheel spinning in sand to me, which makes me think that’s not really the issue at hand. It sounds to me this father is worried because his 19 year old son isn’t well travelled, comes from a small town, and perhaps might be easily influenced. I’m curious as to what it might mean for the father if the son returns home from this trip with a deeper connection to his religion. I don’t know if I have it right, but is it possible that this might raise a lot of questions about the father’s own experiences with his religion that might be uncomfortable/painful/etc. OP-Have i got that right? </p>
<p>Maybe this trip is a great opportunity to talk to your son about your own experiences, your fear that this trip might somehow influence him in a way that you find scary. You know, it sounds like your son might be scared too. Or just confused about who he is, his purpose in life, etc. Maybe exploring his spirituality is how he feels he might be able to bring some adventure to his life. I simply don’t know, but I do see it as a great opportunity, if you haven’t already done so, to have a conversation with your son, adult to adult, about your own personal journey with Judaism, what you like and don’t like, your views on Israel, etc. You may find in these discussion the feeling underneath that your son is experiencing that is prompting the trip. As least then, even if he decides to go, he’ll have the wisdom of your years to help him evaluate for himself, building his own muscle of self identity, and perhaps you’ll be able to be a little less anxious about this. Making it about the money wastes an opportunity to find out what’s really going on with your son.</p>
<p>ya know soze, 10 years from now, long after your son has returned safely from Israel and has developed into a confident, independent young man, in hindsight you are likely to feel like a real idiot for being so paranoid and rigid about this little trip . And what if he wants nothing to do with you ever again because you followed through on your threat?
you may win the battle but lose the war.
You could end up being a lonely old fool.
Is that what you want?</p>
<p>You’re being so ridiculous. The Birthright trip is totally safe. You’re opposed to it because they only take jews? That’s the whole point…it’s to connect Jews with Israel. It’s not some evil trip and they’re not going to force your son to move to Israel. He’s 19 years old and he can go where he wants to. Be careful that you don’t permanently hurt your relationship with your son over this. If my mom told me I couldn’t take a trip where I wanted to, I would react VERY negatively and not listen anyways. </p>
<p>He’s a grown adult. By threatening to cut him off if he doesn’t do what you say, you’re acting like a complete dictator and showing your son that you don’t trust him. Further, you’re clearly trying to prove a point that you control him. You’re going to lose this battle.</p>
<p>Sorry for the anger, but your post really riled me up.</p>
<p>p.s. yes they do have free time on the trips, my 18 yr old loved the free time they all spent in a bar in Tel Aviv, as it was a first opportunity to legally drink. yep, that was one of the fun parts, just plain old being a young adult enjoying life. also loved the camel rides, the hiking, the jeep rides, the friendships, even romance… shall I go on…and I won’t even touch how special it was to celebrate Shabbat together, in the way each participant chose, reform, conservative etc. or to see Chanukah lights in all the houses…</p>
<p>ironically your reaction and the polarized view you are taking is similar to what you are afraid the BR people will do to your son, someone telling him what to believe, who to be</p>
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<p>He’s very easily influenced. He never voluntarily joined anything in his life, but when he got to college he became one of the very small minority to join a frat because a bunch of his friends were doing it. Same with this trip.</p>
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There are literally millions of people (of all persuasions) he can connect with right here in the US of A. No need to travel to the other side of the world.</p>
<p>“but when he got to college he became one of the very small minority to join a frat because a bunch of his friends were doing it.”</p>
<p>SO WHAT?? this happens to LOTS of sheltered freshman when they start college. He’ll live. YOU cant be a helicopter dad your whole life. GET over it now.</p>
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<p>You had better be kidding me.
They are supposedly chaperoned and with security at all times.
He can’t go to bars in this country, he’s not going over there.</p>
<p>soze, have you spent any time outside of the US?</p>
<p>"He can’t go to bars in this country, he not going over there. "
sigh…
If you were to take him to Europe, he would be able to drink in most countries there too. So your rigid thinking rules out most of the rest of the world too, I guess? Daddy just has to be able to control everything , huh? Like I said, maybe you should just lock him in a cellar- that way you know where he is and what he’s doing.</p>
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<p>I’ve been to almost every country in Europe. (Including a few that don’t exist anymore).
I also travel to the UK often on business.
The only place in Asia I’ve been to has been Japan – once 20 years ago.</p>
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<p>citation needed.</p>
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<p>wow</p>
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<p>That’s not my issue. I’ve been told that they are chaperoned at all times and that they can’t “wander around.” Now I’m told they can go bar-hopping.</p>
<p>Sorry, but my worst fears about this trip are being confirmed.</p>
<p>Soze- if he’s very easily influenced then, find a way to keep him talking, engaging with you. If he’s chosen music as a major it tells me the lad follows a passion when he has one but could follow the crowd in other, more social areas of his life. That’s ok, that’s what they do at this age. They have to make a lot of mistakes to figure out what works for them and what doesn’t. I’m sure we all look back at that time in our lives and go “wow what the hell was I thinking when I did XYZ” </p>
<p>Sadly the curse of being a parent is the foresight to see the danger in the road up ahead, but feel hopeless to do anything about it. The funny thing is we have way more influence in our young adult children’s lives than we every imagined. Use this to your advantage. If he seems adament to go on the trip, ask him what he wants to get out of the trip. Is this just a fun adventure for him or is this something more? Tell him how you can see that if that’s what he’s looking for, this trip might sound rewarding, at the same time …(give a counterbalance). If your fear is that he’s easily influenced, then talk to him right out in the open about what he might encounter, be honest and transparent with him about your own abiguity or lack of identification with religion. Where are you from if you don’t mind me asking? Would your son be interested in visiting your country of ancestry over spring break instead, possibly together with you? </p>
<p>Or maybe just try to be honest with your son, and say hey you know, I can’t stop you from going on this trip but i’m really worried about you. I’m worried because …fill in the blank. How the heck do we expect our kids to know what we’re feeling if we don’t tell them. I’m not suggesting we as parents have a right to dump our anxiety on our young adult children. Yet I think they are old enough to start to see how we experience them as young adults in our lives.</p>
<p>Soze, just in case this trip is a fait accompli, I did a google search about Birthright and deaths- I found one in 2000- the kid died in his sleep from a known medical condition; and one in 2010, from spinal meningitis. None from terrorism. I really think it is very safe- as a poster before me said, safer than a trip to Mexico, or even Aruba, judging from recent news stories.</p>