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<p>Then I’m surprised that you say “There are literally millions of people (of all persuasions) he can connect with right here in the US of A. No need to travel to the other side of the world.” Surely, having traveled as much as you have, you understand that there are things you can learn by going ‘to the other side of the world’ that you can’t learn in the same way by staying home.</p>
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<p>I’m from the USA. My family has lived here for at least 150 years (even longer on my mother’s side of the family). Like many Americans I don’t have a single “country of ancestry.” My Ancestors came from all over Europe and then arrived here.</p>
<p>Just to let you know, I have some friends from many different countries, and several of them I may have never met because their parents didn’t want them coming to the US because of how much more dangerous it is here than in many other countries, INCLUDING Israel.
I don’t know why you have such a closed mind about this, but it seems to me like YOU are the one who has been indoctrinated to believe that everywhere outside of the US is dangerous.
Your son needs to be able to formulate his own opinions on the world, and visiting another country without your direct supervision sounds like a great way to do it. No matter what you want to believe, the birthright trip is not dangerous whatsoever, and your son will surely come back alive and well, if not ever better than before.
If you keep your son from exploring the world then he will grow up just as close-minded as you, and no offense, but the world could use much fewer people like that.
I believe that the only reason you are posting here, and arguing so futilely is because you just want someone to say you are right, but in fact, you aren’t. If you actually took away his tuition, first of all he will most likely go on the trip anyways, and secondly, you will have not only destroyed your relationship with him, but also he will most likely not be able to get a college degree and you will be complaining when he has to live out of your basement for the rest of his life.</p>
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<p>Not really. I’m the sort of guy that kisses the ground whenever he lands back in the US. About the only thing I’ve really “learned” is that the Chocolate is much better in England, but all the other food is much worse.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the thread other than the first several posts. I just want to say that my oldest son did Birthright and had a fantastic experience, but he was out of college at the time so we weren’t paying for anything. My niece did it last summer while in college and also had a fantastic time. I was in Israel last spring. Yes, you see soldiers in many places, security is high. But assuming that going to Israel means you are going to be killed is a little like assuming that if you come to Los Angeles you’ll be a victim of a drive-by shooting. We hear the really bad stories here when bad things happen in Israel. We don’t hear about parents arguing with their kids about brushing their teeth, people worrying about their rent being high, etc. Most of the time, people are living their lives there. And even if it scares you if he goes, I absolutely would not cut off a child for wanting to visit Israel. Even if you get him not to go now, he’ll just go as soon as he graduates because Birthright goes to age 26.</p>
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<p>If it weren’t for your history of posts, I’d call you out as a ■■■■■. </p>
<p>I’ll assume that your intention isn’t to be ■■■■■-like but nonetheless, the infamatory nature of your posts, with really almost no thought (and ignoring any kind of basic factual information that is presented to you), suggests you have a way bigger agenda that the fate of your son.</p>
<p>Seriously, get a grip already. As I and others I believe have pointed out to you, the risk may not be zero, but its probably on par with walking around NYC. If really your goal in life is to protect your son with zero risk, well then why even let him go to college? Or a spring break trip of any kind? Or let him cross the road by himself? Surely, he would be much safer living in his bedroom, and you bringing him food once at meals. </p>
<p>My sense is you have a big thorn up your butt about Israel and the Birthright program, and this really has nothing at all to do with danger or any other kind of ‘rational’ argument you can invent. </p>
<p>You’ve clearly already made up your mind-- at this point you are just being defensive about anyone’s argument so why bother keeping the thread going? </p>
<p>I feel incredibly sorry for your son that you are so dogmatic. I wonder when your son will be adult enough that you can let him pick his own philosophy, religion and politics. Your way or the highway. This year its bar him from tuition support for taking advanteg of a program that you philosophically disagree with…next year it will be something like bar him from the dinner table because he wants the wrong major or votes in a way you don’t agree with…and maybe after that, your son is dead to you when he marries the ‘wrong’ person…where do you draw the line?</p>
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<p>there is nothing you can do to “say no.” The son can go without the parent’s permission. This is not complicated.</p>
<p>Starbright: Please read post #118.
Bottom line: I’m not dogmatic about anything… I’m just putting my foot down about this.</p>
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<p>Not true. Although the whole idea of what “birthright” is about does bug me, the subject of a trip to Israel has come up in my family a few times over the years and I’ve always vetoed it due to safety concerns.</p>
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<p>That’s a very sad statement.</p>
<p>The way I see it, here are the options:</p>
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<li>you put your foot down, and your kid relents and you keep a good relationship.</li>
<li>you put your foot down, your kid will be quiet until you finish paying for his school, and then give you the middle finger.</li>
<li>your kid gives you the middle finger and goes anyway now.</li>
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<p>So… if your friends do something, and you do it with them, that means it is not voluntary? Really?</p>
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<p>How can you? It’s a free trip, your son does not need your permission or money. If he wants to go, he’ll go.</p>
<p>Are you really serious about cutting off funding for college if he takes this trip? I wonder what you’d do if he wanted to leave college to join the U.S. military.</p>
<p>OP - you have to realize that you don’t hold all the cards here. You are potentially destroying the relationship with your kid because you don’t want him to go to Israel. Traveling to Israel is not very high on the list of “terrible things to do”…</p>
<p>Your kid is not obligated to respect you. And I am not the only one in this thread who said if they were your kid, they would turn their back on you.</p>
<p>@OP: I think I’ve read enough of your responses to deduce that the “safety factor” may actually be a pretext for your objections to the trip and that the real reason (which you may not even be aware of) is that you are afraid that he might adopt the perspective, post-trip, that he as a Jew (of whatever stripe) does have a spiritual connection to the place even if he should choose never to visit again. This has potential philosophical and political ramifications. Perhaps you may fear that the trip may drive a wedge between you and your son if he goes and then chooses to believe the “wrong” thing (i.e. different from your view). I say this because you keep revisiting the fraternizing with a “foreign army”, and the “North Korea”/no links/no heritage with Israel comments, and your fear of his “indoctrination”, especially if you see your son as particularly impressionable. </p>
<p>Of course, I could also be wrong. In any case, since young adults with the proper credentials have up to age 26 to try for it, what card do you plan to play if you do manage to dissuade/forbid him from such a trip now if he wants to go there after he graduates college?</p>
<p>I’m crying “uncle” on this one. I’m just not sure what the point of this thread is anymore. Soze, you’re right, your son is making a horrible horrible mistake. You should just cut him off. Make you feel better? There now the thread can be close :)</p>
<p>OP don’t know why I’m bothering as I find your attitude intolerable personally, but I do want to add, having a drink in a bar with your entire Birthright group is not exactly bar hopping, but it appears you twist things to fit your perceptions. </p>
<p>sad really…your son is growing up whether you are ready or not. frankly the way you are expressing yourself and talking about him, you seem so disrespectful of HIM. he makes a choice to join a frat along with friends and you criticize that, seeing it as him continuing to not make independent choices. another irony, you criticize your own kid for not joining anything voluntarily, but when he voluntarily makes choices like wanting to do BR you clamp down. How does your wife deal with your need to control everything?</p>
<p>My guess is that the parents who agree with you aren’t stepping forward. I think that as long as you are paying so much money you can make any reasonable demand of your son. People giving comments and criticism don’t know how your child behaves, what type of risk taker he is, how he follows directions, etc.</p>
<p>I did, in fact, stop my son from going on a trip I felt was dangerous, that was also free and for which he had been chosen over a lot of other applicants. He was mad at me for less than a day. I think there is huge exaggeration going on about how your son will react and the lasting affect on your relationship. I say this feeling the Birthright trip is safe and would be a rewarding experience.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why you are spending so much time getting feedback, or why you even asked for it. Why are there two Birthright threads? Seems strange to me.</p>
<p>Here’s a point that I don’t think anyone has mentioned yet.
You said that you never learned anything by visiting other countries. In fact, you learned that you don’t like staying in other countries! Maybe your son will go on this trip, and realize that he didn’t enjoy it, and so he won’t go on other ones like it. You learn just as much, if not more, from mistakes than from doing things the right way all the time. If you never let him travel outside of the US, he will always resent you and most likely still want to do the traveling, but if you let him explore now he will either enjoy it and appreciate the fact that you allowed him to experience it, or he will dislike it and come to agree with your point of view. Either way, allowing him to go can only improve things for both of you.</p>
<p>Parent1986- did you cut your son off so that he was unable to attend college?? I don’t think so. There is a huge difference between not allowing a kid to do something, and not allowing a kid to do something by ruining their education and most likely the rest of their lives. The missing out on the trip would most likely not be an issue, but losing college tuition over it is what would destroy their relationship.</p>
<p>Why did you even bother to post?</p>
<p>You selectively response to parts of arguments…the only parts you can respond to, always on the defense. Never once gave an intelligent response- or any response?- to the fact that the ‘danger’ issue is non-sensical. </p>
<p>You never saw the point of travel…so obviously your son can not possibly benefit from such an experience since you (sadly) did not, how can anyone else!? </p>
<p>You don’t like Birthright, so your son should not get this experience and make up his own mind (clearly your influence in his life has been so trivial that he will be ‘brainwashed’ against your will unless you use a very heavy hammer to get your way).</p>
<p>Really no idea why you bothered to post. Reading these post and your prior ones, you actually sound pretty incredibly dogmatic to me. Of course your self view is the only objective measure of this. </p>
<p>But hey good luck with your son there. I’m out of here as no point in wasting more energy.</p>