<p>I’ve had enough too. </p>
<p>There is nothing left to say</p>
<p>Soze wrote:
Soze, chances are that your son’s campus, like most US college campuses, IS the equivalent of a PLO propaganda trip, paid for for by your tuition dollars. One of Birthright’s missions is the counter the radical left-wing anti-Israel politics, often verging on anti-Semitism, that dominate the college scene. How is it you have no problem with your son’s daily exposure to these ideas, to say nothing of the dangers he faces from the binge drinking that dominates frat life?</p>
<p>But you’re right, if your son goes on this booze-drenched jaunt to consort with hardened soldiers (BTW, military service is mandatory in Israel, and your son would be hard pressed to meet any Israeli his own age who wasn’t in, or a veteran of, the IDF), run through minefields on a daily basis, returning as a Manchurian candidate with a connection to Israel one iota stronger than than the one he has to North Korea and a suspicion that daddy’s views of the world may not always be the right ones, you should simply disown him forever.</p>
<p>What is it about CC that we get so many idiots posting “questions”, when in fact they have made up their minds, and have no interest in the opinions of others?
time for this thread to go bye bye</p>
<p>Mommaj: First you owe me an apology for attributing a quote to me that I didn’t make.</p>
<p>Secondly your making some pretty wild contentions that his college campus is full of “anti-israel politics” and that his fraternity life (he doesn’t live in a frat house btw) is full of “binge drinking”</p>
<p>Seems to be the consensus here. OP simply wants to find someone to agree with him. Almost no one does so he simply restates his point.</p>
<p>OP. Not only did my son drink in countries where it was legal before he legally could, he specifically went to Canada twice with his buddies to go drinking. With all the cautions that a father could provide him with, I wished him well on his venture. At some time you need to cut the apron strings and learn the junior is growing up. You can’t control everything he does and your attempt to use the only real “weapon” you have when your words fail will certainly destroy your relationship with him. I understand your concern for his safety, but they are overblown and irrational. Is this really how you want your relationship with your son to end?</p>
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<p>Ok, here’s one:
This danger issue is very real.
Yes there is crime in US cities (keep in mind that this is a country kid who’s not used to big cities in any case, but that’s another issue), but one big difference is that in Israel there is the added danger that there is a non-trivial percentage of the population that would like nothing better than to kill my child. I’d like to keep him as far away from said people as possible, if you don’t mind. Also, they apparently all ride around in one big bus together, which would seem to be a prime target to me – I would think attacking a bus full of young American Jews would be job #1 for your garden-variety terrorist.</p>
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<p>Sheesh, you think?</p>
<p>
That’s right. All [ten</a> thousand of them](<a href=“http://ejewishphilanthropy.com/10500-north-american-students-participated-in-birthright-this-summer/]ten”>10,500 North American Students Participated in Birthright This Summer – eJewish Philanthropy) ride around in one big bus. The bus is HUGE!</p>
<p>It’s really interesting to read about a parent…especially a father who is over-the-top overprotective about a son…especially one who is 19 years old. </p>
<p>It’s interesting as while my father was overly controlling about HS grades/academic performance, he was almost the polar opposite of you in many other respects…understandable considering he was effectively on his own from the age of 12 during the midst of the Chinese Civil War in the late '40s. </p>
<p>If anything, he felt I was a LATE BLOOMER in terms of adult maturity despite having grown up in 1980’s NYC taking subways/navigating the streets alone from the age of 6(latchkey kid here), traveled to visit far-off relatives on the opposite coast/foreign country without always having an adult escort before end of high school, surviving and even winning a few school fights in elementary/junior high, and starting college at 17 without any financial or logistical help from parents. </p>
<p>While his notion about me was a bit annoying, it was understandable considering how he had to make his way through a much more unstable and dangerous world than most American adolescents would ever face…including myself. Before he was 19, he was captured twice by communists before escaping again, witnessed horrors of war up close…including seeing a man shot in front of him before making his way to Taiwan, had to figure out a way to make a living sustaining himself while simultaneously continuing his education, and managed to earn a full scholly and full room & board at the #2 uni during a period when university admission on the island made current elite US college admissions seem like a cakewalk. </p>
<p>However, his formative experiences influenced him to encourage more independence/self-reliance for those navigating their way through adolescence, college, and young adult life…not restricting them like you seem inclined to do with your son. </p>
<p>My father would be quite puzzled at your restrictive/controlling inclinations considering your son’s age…especially when at 19…he was only a year away from college graduation and starting his mandatory 2 years of military service as a commissioned officer. And this wasn’t considered particularly remarkable for those in his generation.</p>
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<p>The death rate from terrorism in Israel in 2001-2002 (recent peak years; more recent years have been about a tenth or less compared to those years) was 67 per million, or about 1.2% of the total death rate in Israel (5.47 per thousand). The difference between the total death rate in Israel and the US (8.38 per thousand) is much greater than 1.2%.</p>
<p>[Death</a> rates from terrorism, USA and Israel](<a href=“http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terror_rate.html]Death”>Death rates from terrorism, USA and Israel)
[Summary</a> of terrorist attacks in Israel](<a href=“http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html]Summary”>Summary of terrorist attacks in Israel)
[Chronology</a> of terrorist attacks in Israel part XI](<a href=“http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisrael-11.html]Chronology”>Chronology of terrorist attacks in Israel part XI)
<a href=“https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html[/url]”>https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html</a>
<a href=“https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html[/url]”>https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html</a></p>
<p>Nearly all of the would-be terrorists in the neighborhood of Israel are not in Israel proper. Israel has been keeping them out for the most part such that deaths from terrorism are tiny compared to other deaths, including other violent deaths from car crashes, ordinary crime, other accidents, etc… Note that of the 19 terrorism deaths listed for 2011, 8 were in the West Bank, at least 2 of which were Palestinians presumably killed by Israeli settlers, so there were only 11 in Israel proper, 8 of which were at a border crossing. So that leaves 3 in Israel proper, not at border crossings, for 2011. I.e. a rate of less than one half per million.</p>
<p>Two things:</p>
<p>1.) I wanted to challenge the underlying assumption here that Taglit tours involve indoctrination. Really? Do you believe that the American college students and grads who participate are such ignoramus bozos that they wouldn’t notice and perhaps even complain? Or do they represent such a monolithic mass of brainwashed thinking that they just can’t tell? Or does the allure of a free trip somehow undermine their capacity for critical thinking?</p>
<p>2.) Am I the only one who thinks that what the OP is accusing the Taglit organizers of doing (refusing to allow young people to see anything but what they want them to see etc.) is somehow akin to what she’s trying to do with her kid. Except in this case the rich person isn’t offering money ostensibly to indoctrinate young people, but threatening to cut off support if the young person seeks exposure to information and a political perspective the OP finds offensive? Hmmmm.</p>
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<p>Being in a tour bus together is altogether different than being on a bus where a suicide bomber can get on at any stop. On my trip our group was on a bus. Only our group was on the bus and no one else. That is a much safer situation.</p>
<p>A bit of critical thinking will reveal why it would be a very bad, incredibly stupid idea for a terrorist (garden variety or otherwise) to attack a busload of of young American Jewish tourists. Or, pretty much any western tourists. The danger on those tour buses isn’t with terrorist attacks, it’s with the drivers, playing chicken on narrow two-lane highways. :eek: </p>
<p>I’d like to thank the OP for providing our family with the basis for a very lively discussion at dinner tonight.</p>
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There was someone in your family who agreed with the OP?</p>
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<p>Your assertion that the “college scene” is dominated by radical anti-Israel politics is quite inconsistent with my experience, as someone who has been involved in the Israel/Palestine issue at many college campuses at one point or another. </p>
<p>Perhaps what you consider “radical” is relative to the political views of our Congress? ;)</p>
<p>Now that I’ve got all my anger out, let me get into some practical advice.</p>
<p>It seems like you’re having a tough time coming to grips with the fact that he IS an adult (he’s not just “playing the card”), and this IS his decision. You CANT cut off his funding over this. That is so many levels beyond inappropriate. Would you have liked it if your parents had coerced you into doing whatever they said once you were already an adult? That’s not a healthy relationship. I know you’re feeling angry over this, but you need to step back and acknowledge that these are his decisions to make and NO GOOD will come out of you cutting off his funding. Literally, not one ounce of positive energy will come out of that decision. Sure he might do what you want, but he will hate you.</p>
<p>What you CAN do is try to have a calm, healthy conversation about this with him. Discuss the pros and cons. Bring up your fears and help him come to a good conclusion. Acknowledge that he’s a responsible adult and the decision is ultimately his. You can try to influence him with advice and discussion, but the second you become manipulative and try to tell him what to do, he’s just going to rebel (as he clearly already has).</p>
<p>I’m going to be blunt here and say the trip does look pretty dodgy. </p>
<p>Despite you highly prejudiced view towards the “Middle East”, which for your information encompasses an entire region and therefore cannot be characterized as “unsafe” especially Israel which is extremely secure; I would suggest you don’t allow him to go on the trip since you are correct in saying that one does not simply mingle with Israeli soldiers.</p>
<p>Where does your s go to college, OP?</p>
<p>Mazel for having a son that has his own mind! He is going to have a wonderful time in a magical place. Have some confidence in you son. For god sake you raised him. Baruch Hashem the israeli army will take good care. My daughter went on the march last year while in 12 th grade. She arrived back home alive and went to college. She is looking forward on going back to soak in the dead sea one day and climb Masada. You should go too!</p>
<p>The most enlightening thing about this thread is that the core issue as formulated by the OP is parental reaction to a young adults failure to show respect/obey the parent who is paying for college. This core issue comes up over and over and over again on CC. Usually there is a lot of support for its the parents money and the kid better show respect/obey or else. That has even been the case where the disrespect is failing to properly respond to requests/demands for telephone/email/text communication with the parent while at college.</p>
<p>Also, I recall that there was a huge safety concern about going to an alumni interviewers house for the interview. People made posts that made it seem that if a parent allowed that they were intentionally ignoring risk and/or were putting their child in harms way without forbidding it. </p>
<p>What explains the difference here?</p>