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<p>Not that it matters, but Israel is not his heritage. None of his family came from there. Like I said before, he has just about as much connection to North Korea as to Israel.</p>
<p>The soldiers the students are with are other young adults just like your child. My children found the soldiers to be just like their friends at school and enjoyed learning about there life growing up in Israel and their time in the army. I know they are Facebook friends with some of the soldiers they met, and if they were to come to the states to visit, my kids would enjoy showing them around our home city.</p>
<p>Each Birthright trip has a different feel; some are more religious, others are not religious at all, some have a more outdoors schedule for the nature lover, as well as other themes. Do you have any idea what the scope of your son’s trip is? I think you need to receive more information about Birthright and specifically the actual trip your son is going on. You may find it is a trip of lifetime. Why don’t you call the Birthright office and arm yourself with questions. I bet they will be able help calm your fears. </p>
<p>I don’t know what the agenda of your son’s friends is; hopefully it is just a group of boys wanting to take a trip together. Most students go with their college friends through their college. My daughter’s college did not have their own program and she wanted to go with a high school friends, so they found another program to go on. My son had never gone while in college, so he went with my daughter and her friend. I loved that they were together on the trip and I have great pictures with them together. Was I worried about them there, yes I was. I am also worried whenever they travel; it is my job as their mother to worry about them. That doesn’t mean I don’t allow them to travel.</p>
<p>I haven’t heard about many “Birthright” trips to North Korea, but maybe that will change with a new leader. </p>
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<p>Well if you go back enough generations, I would guess that if both of his parents are Jewish, then he has more genetic connection to Israel than to North Korea. If he’s Jewish, Israel has a huge fraction of the world’s Jewish population, far more than North Korea. I can see wanting to seek a connection. </p>
<p>Still, you need to love him unconditionally and this seems like a really petty reason to cause a huge fracture in your relationship. You really need to let him be an adult and let him make his own mistakes. You really don’t want him resenting you after all that you’ve given him. </p>
<p>This thread reminds me of the Alabama parents who were mortified that their offspring wanted to attend Auburn.</p>
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<p>No, they are not.
- My son is an American, they are not.
- None of my son’s friends at school carry weapons.</p>
<p>Like I said, I don’t think my son has met anybody in the US military. It bothers me that he will be hanging out with foreign armed forces.</p>
<p>OP - you are where you are with your son, which is he knows where you stand on many issues, he doesn´t agree with you, and he is ready to do what he wants to do, and that is it. I don´t know how you got there (well, I kind of do), but is this where you want to be with your son going forward?</p>
<p>I don´t know much about the program (not Jewish), but from what people have posted, it sounds like an “educational” program, which your son is interested in. It may not be something you believe in, but it doesn´t mean your 19 year old son doesn´t have the right to pursue. If your son is leaving school to move to Israel to join the army, I would be concerned.</p>
<p>D1 is not on our payroll now. She is full self supporting person, therefore we have no financial hold over her, but she continues to call me to ask for advice. She said to me once that she knows if I ever ask her to do something or not to do something, I must have a very good reason. This trust didn´t come over night, it was built over a life time, and I use that perogative very carefully.</p>
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<p>Except this “mistake” can be fatal. Given that he doesn’t <em>have</em> to go, there is absolutely no reason to take the risk. We can debate the level of risk, but given that it’s clearly not zero, why chance it?</p>
<p>So you want your son to be friends with only those that look like him, and come from the same country? Are all his friends Jewish? Do you dislike his friends? Would you have a problem with your son being friends with someone in the US Military?</p>
<p>If your main concern is the safety issue, I promise you Birthright does everything in their power to keep kids safe. That is why they do no allow the kids to wonder around on their own; it is a chaperoned trip. Would my kids have liked to do what they wanted on the trip; sure but they knew why the trip was designed the way it was. My kids were also not 18 when they went; one was 20 and the other 23. Old enough to understand and respect the trip for what it was.</p>
<p>As mentioned earlier by a few people; you have a greater chance being killed in a car accident on the US highways. Should your son never drive, fly in a plane, operate heavy machinery?</p>
<p>Do you let your S drive or ride in an automobile - car crashes are the #1 cause of death among young Americans. </p>
<p>Homicide is the #2 cause of death among young Americans. Much of that occurs due to the drug trade in inner cities. Count your blessings that your S isn’t involved in that. </p>
<p>Suicide is the #3 cause of death among young Americans. Care to guess how often that it’s a result of parental pressure. </p>
<p>I think that you want to take a step back and understand that his going is not a personal insult to you. You should also carefully consider whether you want to cut him off and damage your relationship with him. Many parents of suicide victims wish they’d given things more thought.</p>
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<p>As a kid who often has similar discussions/arguments with my Mom I’d like to add my perspective … what drove me nuts was the inconsistent use of risk and cost when driving decisions.</p>
<p>OP, I’m basically an analytical geek who has taken 2 classes in decision analysis and your position is one of the classic inconsistancies virtually all humans exhibit about something. You claim taking a risk does not need to be taken is unnecessary should not be taken. So I’d like to ask you a rhetorical questions … but first add one fact … more most kids in the US being in a car is by far the biggest death risk they face as youths and young adults.</p>
<p>When you went shopping when the kids were small did you bring the kids along or did you hire a babysitter so they could stay home and out of car?</p>
<p>Statistically the risks of those trips in a car probably dwarfs the risk of the trip to Isreal … so when you were in control you likely put your kids at a much higher risk than this trip. However you’re focussing on the risk you fear and can not control and not the actual relative risk of the activity.</p>
<p>What is more dangerous than risking physical harm IMO, is telling your adult child you don’t trust his judgement & don’t respect his interests.</p>
<p>There is a risk getting out of bed in the morning- he should be broadening his knowledge/experiences at this time- it sounds like a great opportunity.</p>
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<p>Not really. If they were to do <em>everything</em> in their power they would leave these kids alone and not drag them to the other side of the world.</p>
<p>Also… there doesn’t seem to be any screening about how prepared these kids might be for international travel. My son grew up in a small town and goes to college in another small town. He’s not worldly, savvy or even close to being prepared for what might happen on a trip such as this. I travel a lot for business, and lots of things can happen – from diverted flights to emergency landings to cancelled connections to hotel workers strikes, etc. He doesn’t have a <em>clue</em> what to do when he’s outside his element – this isn’t his fault, it’s mine and his mothers, but we are where we are.</p>
<p>Soze–I understand your philosophical discomfort. My S, who is not Jewish, but whose grandfather was, was turned down by Birthright when he applied to a trip. Fair enough. He didn’t fit their parameters. So yes, he most likely is genetically related to much of the Israeli population, but that is immaterial as far as Birthright is concerned. So it’s not about ethnicity; it’s about a view of religion.</p>
<p>I get that. it bothers me too. I get being anxious about danger and safety, too. My kids have traveled all over the world. Lots of places have violence. It’s scarey.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, one of the most violent countries in the world, outside of war zones, is the USA. My d was mugged while jogging in a local park. Should I demand she give up jogging? My sister-in-law was killed by a negligent driver–as thousands of people are every year. Are you going to tell your S to stop getting in cars (No, that won’t work, either–I was hit by a car while walking across a street–better stop walking.)</p>
<p>The problem with your argument is that you are not looking at real odds, but imaginary ones. YOu know about Flatow because she’s the exception. Thousands of young Americans in high school and college take these trips every year, and don’t get hurt. Heck, the plane flight’s probably more dangerous, but you don’t have a problem with taking him on planes.</p>
<p>So my take is–grit your teeth over the philosophical issues and count on the good critical thinking you’ve taught and modeled for your S. And accept that life is dangerous, and most of the biggest dangers are not the ones we are scared by–just because something seems dangerous doesn’t mean the odds are it will be.</p>
<p>And then finally–balance against your relationship with your S–which is priceless. Are you prepared to lose that over an assessment based more on emotion than fact?</p>
<p>I am of the same mind as jym and zoosermom. If he is determined to go, get him educated! Prepare him, talk with him, build confidence in him so that he is ready to make sound choices while there. Do you know anyone else who has made this trip? Could they discuss this with him?</p>
<p>I understand your fears. I, too am a worrier, but growing our children into confident adults, who can make wise choices, is our best defense against our fears.</p>
<p>Best wishes to you and your family!!</p>
<p>I understand your fears. I, too am a worrier, but growing our children into confident adults, who can make wise choices, is our best defense against our fears.
ITA^
It is not our children’s job to assuage all our fears, it is our job to prepare them to go out into the world.</p>
<p>I know it is scary to not be able to reach your child 24/7.</p>
<p>He doesn’t have a <em>clue</em> what to do when he’s outside his element – this isn’t his fault, it’s mine and his mothers, but we are where we are.
THen this seems like a wonderful opportunity for him to learn a bit about the world in a structured and supported program.</p>
<p>If you love your child, you have to learn to let them live their own life.</p>
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<p>Staying in the US, he could die in a car crash (including being hit by a car while walking on the sidewalk or crossing the street as a pedestrian), other accident, or violent crime. Indeed, it is possible or likely that going on this trip to Israel has a lower risk of death than staying in the US.</p>
<p>This could be similar to the not obviously intuitive fact that people serving in the US Navy and US Air Force in 2003-2006 had a lower death rate than the all (mostly civilian) US men age 20-34.</p>
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<p>That is presumably part of why the trip is chaperoned.</p>
<p>Soze- Would you be interested in hearing from students that have attended a Birthright trip? While many of our children have been on the trip, I am sure there are students here on the forum that have also experienced Birthright. I don’t read the student threads, but I am betting if you post where the students read, you will get some first hand accounts of the trip.</p>
<p>I just want you to be well educated on what the trips mission is and what the students experience instead of guessing what goes on. By getting facts, you may find that this trip might be something perfect for your child. Give it a chance; if after armed with the information you still don’t want your son going, talk to him-adult to adult and see if you can come to an understanding.</p>
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<p>I totally agree with this. I don’t ‘get’ why parents feel it’s more important to take a stand than to provide a education and hopefully a good future for their child.</p>
<p>A friend recently told me if they ever saw evidence that their child was smoking pot, they will pull him out of college and cut off all funding. My response: So, what does that get you? An uneducated kid with no job prospects. A breach in the parent/child relationship so wide it will probably never be fully restored. Instead of expressing your concerns and using the opportunity to advise your child, you end up cutting off your nose to spite your face.</p>
<p>There are, indeed, situations in which I would withdraw funding but they are few:</p>
<p>1) Failing school
2) Strong indications of drug abuse problems (not just smoking a joint or having a drink)</p>
<p>I think that’s about it, actually.</p>
<p>OP - use this as an opportunity to guide your child through the pros and cons of doing this and to explore his feeling about his actual experience. I know that I would be scared to let my son do this and my initial reaction “H@ll No”. But realistically, this group has a huge interest in making sure these kids stay safe (which is probably why they don’t have any free time to get in trouble). If it were me, I would use it as an opportunity to show my son I trust him and maybe it would bring us closer together. No adult - age 20 or 50 likes to be told what to do.</p>
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<p>It’s a group trip, right? There will be people to help handle such situations. And if this stuff really bothers you, get him a cell phone of the type that works outside the United States. That way, if a problem arises and the people in charge of the program don’t solve it for him, he can contact you and you can brainstorm together on possible solutions.</p>
<p>My daughter flew for the very first time as a college senior, going to a job interview in another city. On her way back, one of her flights was cancelled because of weather problems. She figured out what to do mostly by herself, with one cell phone call to me to discuss options. No big deal.</p>
<p>I remember when my dad told me he didn’t want me dating my boyfriend after he left for college, and I replied that I was an adult and would make my own decisions. Dad said, “But we will help you make the right decisions,” and boy, did I dig my heels in farther! And of course Dad was right, the relationship ended badly the next year, but his approach was not helpful.</p>
<p>soze, it’s striking to me that you keep emphasizing the things that you object to about the trip, but you’ve not replied at all to people’s concerns about how this type of relationship with your son (“do what I say or I won’t give you my money”) is going to play out in the years to come. You were the one who initially said that the exact issue between you wasn’t important. So why are you now ignoring all the general advice, and concentrating on people’s comments about Birthright and travel in Israel? </p>
<p>One of the standard weapons in the parental arsenal is using logical consequences. You forget your jacket? Guess you’ll be cold. You spent your allowance already? Guess you’re not going to the movies with your friends. What you’re doing is unlogical consequences. You’re doing something that I don’t agree with? Well, I’m not giving you any money. Figure out a logical consequence for what he’s doing, and go with that.</p>
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<p>Now we’re getting to the heart of things. He cannot continue to stay in a cocoon for the rest of his life. At some point, he has to go out on his own. Doing this trip is actually one of the very best ways for him to dip his toes into travel. He will travel with a group, with plenty of staffing. He doesn’t have to deal with the logistics of travel, that’s all handled for him. And there will be other students on the trip who’ve never travelled abroad because it was out of their family’s budgets.</p>