<p>Consider he has listened to yoiuu , and does not find your arguments convincing. Just like every other parent on this thread.</p>
<p>I’d say based on his listening to you, and weighing his own opinions he should be able to visit a foreign country and not be “brainwashed”</p>
<p>You could cut off funds and that may be enough to stop this trip so he can finish school. And then we he’s done with college, I’d expect he’d also be done with you.
Is that what you are trying to achieve?</p>
<p>Soze…it is little comfort to you right now because fear can cause us to be irrational but Israel is not the place to be most concerned about. I have been biting my tongue and second guessing myself regarding my son being where there trully is danger for a young 22 year old American man. If my son were to have one slip up and forget where he was he could be in serious trouble. I had to have faith that he was mature enough to graduate college, secure this very good job and now is is doing what many young men do after graduation…taking some risks (hopefully with safety in mind).</p>
<p>Ok folks, the consensus seems to be as follows:</p>
<ol>
<li>This trip is not a big deal, Israel is not all that dangerous and I should have nothing to worry about regarding the agenda of those paying for the trip.</li>
<li>Hanging out for 10 days with a bunch of foreign military personnel is no big deal, since they are just like American teenagers.</li>
<li>I’m being unreasonable in my opposition to this trip.</li>
<li>I’m over-reacting by threatening to cutoff his tuition payments.</li>
<li>The fact that he’s not “worldly” is my fault and now I’m paying the price.</li>
</ol>
<p>I get what you’re all saying, but I’m having a very hard time rationalizing the amount of disrespect he is showing me by insisting on going. Keep in mind, my concern is for his well-being, it doesn’t give me any benefit to have him not go (other than the piece of mind that he’s be safe).</p>
<p>PS: I’ve called the Birthright people and explained the situation. They could not be less helpful. Their attitude is basically that he’s over 18 and if they want to give him a free trip, then they can give him a free trip --they don’t care what the parent’s think. I wonder what they would think if a bunch of strangers started giving out things to their kids? (that they didn’t want them to have).</p>
<p>That’s because he’s an adult entitled to live his own life. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If your concern were solely for his well-being, then you’ll let him decide for himself.</p>
<p>However, your concern seems to be about what you perceive to be disrespect from him. It does give you benefit to have him not go because it lets you control his life longer than most of us feel that you should be entitled to, and it would make you feel good to see him submit to your will.</p>
<p>You’re not getting it. We’re not saying that you should rationalize this. We’re saying that your method of interacting with him when you have a disagreement is not something that works between parents and adult children. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Irony of ironies: you probably just moved him to the front of the line with that phone call. Seriously, a young man who knows nothing about Israel because his family feels that their connection to it is bupkes? Your son is a poster child for the program’s target population.</p>
<p>You might have gotten a different set of responses if your son had wanted to buy a motorcycle, for example. Or have sex-reassignment surgery. Or join the Marines. </p>
<p>There are two fundamental questions here:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Are you willing to risk your son’s education over this issue? (This is what will happen if you make further support of his education contingent on him following your wishes and he chooses not to follow them.)</p></li>
<li><p>Are you willing to risk permanently destroying your relationship with your son over this issue? (This could happen regardless of whether he follows your wishes.)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Most of us think that the issue in question – a trip to Israel as part of an organized group – is not worth taking these risks. </p>
<p>It’s also important to realize that you can’t prevent your son from visiting Israel. You can only delay it. At some point, he will no longer need your money, and there will be nothing you can do to prevent him from traveling anywhere he chooses.</p>
<p>My own son has expressed an interest in possibly buying a motorcycle. I do not like this. But there’s nothing I can do to prevent it. He is 25. He is self-supporting. He lives in his own apartment in a city on the other side of the country. All I can do is express my concerns and live with whatever decision he makes. You will reach a stage in your family’s life where this is all you can do, too.</p>
<p>Would I have threatened to cut off my son’s tuition if he had expressed an interest in buying a motorcycle while still in college? I have no idea.</p>
<p>Is he being disrespectful? Perhaps. But is disagreement, even strong disagreement necessarily disrespectful? I have had disagreements with my children. Sometimes they (or I!) have been disrespectful of the other’s views. So, I have no opinion on whether he was/is disrespectful to you. But should that be the basis for your decision? Your concern “is his well being”. OK - what is his concern? Are you listening to him as much as you want him to listen to you?</p>
<p>It is too bad the Birthright people were not helpful. They should understand that people may have preconceived notions of what Israel may be like. The should be answering those concerns honestly and openly. But again, should this be the basis for your decision?</p>
<p>What is the long term affect of you cutting off college funding?</p>
<p>(1) Assume that I deliver the “cut-off” if you go message and he still goes. Am I willing to actually carry through with it?</p>
<p>(2) Assume that I deliver the “cut off” message and he still goes and dies. Will having told him that he is “cut off” for not respecting me as one of our last conversations be something that I will accept as the price of my need for respect?</p>
<p>(3) Assume that that I deliver the “cut off” message and he does not go. Am I willing to not resort to this fiscal blackmail for “lessor” transgressions? And, am I willing to accept that this may establish in my son’s mind that there is a price to his relationship with me?</p>
<p>(4) Assume that I deliver the “cut-off” if you go message. Am I worthy of being respected?</p>
<p>There is no line involved here. He already had a ticket, etc. He’s all set to go from their perspective.</p>
<p>He’s going to the other side of the world, to a dangerous place with a bunch of strangers and funded by some group with an agenda that considers him part of their “target population.” This is absolutely killing me.</p>
<p>So as described, and given your heartfelt motivations (I don’t necessarily agree or disagree), I would make it clear that you are going to dock funds you send to him for school (or for living) by a) the amount that the trip is “worth” (you can figure that out), and b) the amount he would have made working full-time during the time of the trip.</p>
<p>He then can figure out whether it is worth his time and money to make up the difference or not. He might have to take out additional loans, work two jobs during the school year, or whatever.</p>
<p>As you have strong feelings about this, I think you must allow that he might as well. So here’s a quick way to test it.</p>
<p>(Disclosure: I allowed by younger one to go to Cairo to study Arabic at 16, and at 16 my older one went with me to dig bodies, etc. out of sand after the Indian tsunami, and she returned by herself to Cambodia, Thailand, and India the following summer to continue reconstruction work and visit people doing trauma-related work. So I’m thought to be particularly free with encouraging my kids to go abroad. My feelings would likely be a strong as yours about such a so-called “birth-right” trip (would seem to me that Palestinians here have the true birthright) minus the business about the potential danger.)</p>
<p>"Ok folks, the consensus seems to be as follows:</p>
<ol>
<li>This trip is not a big deal, Israel is not all that dangerous and I should have nothing to worry about regarding the agenda of those paying for the trip.</li>
<li>Hanging out for 10 days with a bunch of foreign military personnel is no big deal, since they are just like American teenagers.</li>
<li>I’m being unreasonable in my opposition to this trip.</li>
<li>I’m over-reacting by threatening to cutoff his tuition payments.</li>
<li>The fact that he’s not “worldly” is my fault and now I’m paying the price."</li>
</ol>
<p>That pretty well sums it up. </p>
<p>“I get what you’re all saying, but I’m having a very hard time rationalizing the amount of disrespect he is showing me by insisting on going.”</p>
<p>What about the lack of respect you are showing him. When kids grow up, you can offer your opinions and advice but then you have to let them make decisions as to what is best for them. Threatening to cut him off is rather childish. When he was a little kid, you could make all the decisions for him. Now that he is an adult, he needs to make his own. Cutting him off would be the biggest mistake you could make. You would then be on Dr. Phil crying about how you didn’t understand why your son won’t have any thing to do.</p>
<p>respect is earned, even for parents. It is not a filial obligation. Your son is now a man- heck, he could enlist in the US army , which considering the war in Afghanistan, would be a lot more dangerous, and you could not stop him. so give up trying to justify “protecting” him, when what you want, and are not getting, is his obedience.
He will respect you for showing some maturity, and letting him go , without making threats about how you will cut him off. Threatening him is immature- is it any wonder he doesnt show you respect?</p>
<p>No one is saying parenting was easy. It is hard to watch your child fall down when they learn to ride a bike & painful when they put a dent in your car.
At risk of sounding cliche, they are not extensions of ourselves.they don’t think like we do nor should they.
By the time they are adults, we have had their entire lifetime to guide their values and arrange for opportunities to practice making good choices.
If we trust in their own intelligence, in the guidance that we have given them up to this point, then we should be confident that even in circumstances that we can’t foresee, that they will make use of their resources and adapt as needed.</p>
<p>OP, this might actually be the only thread I have ever seen in which EVERYONE’S advice is in agreement. </p>
<p>I understand that you feel that your son has not respected your opinion at all. I’m guessing, if you express yourself at home with the same absolute attitude that you do here, your son feels justified in not listening to you. </p>
<p>Don’t make him write you off here. It will just make it easier for him to do so in other ways in the future. </p>
<p>The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Your son is showing the same inconsiderate, inflexible lack of regard that you are. The only difference is that (this time) he is in control & you are not.</p>
<p>No it isn’t. Really, it isn’t. If you don’t overreact, I can guarantee that you will pick him up at the airport on his return trip, embrace him, and be proud of the man that you raised standing before you.</p>
<p>Everyone has an agenda. Theirs seems pretty straight-forward and out in the open:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I just don’t find this insidious or frightening.</p>
<p>As for this:
Are you saying that the <em>only</em> people they will meet while over there are military personnel?</p>
<p>
I don’t know why your S chose this particular issue to get rebellious and assertive about, but it has been my experience that in families where the parents keep a very tight lid on the kids, something blows up along the way at some point. I think it is more common for it to happen in high school, but college isn’t that unusual either.</p>
<p>And when you consider some of the other ways this could manifest, a Birthright trip seems ideal, in that it is free, he will learn something, and gain some travel experience.</p>
<p>Hey… wait a sec. You don’t know me.
I’m a very reasonable guy, in fact, this is the first time I can really ever recall “putting my foot down” about pretty much anything.</p>
<p>By way of comparison, his mother went totally nuts when he decided to be a Music major (“what kind of job is he gonna get…”) I totally supported him under the “everybody should pursue their passion” argument. </p>
<p>He also joined a fraternity (which I don’t approve of), but since he was spending his money on the dues, I accepted it under the “he has to live his own life” argument.</p>
<p>In this case there is actual danger to his life and that’s where Mr. Nice Guy leaves the room.</p>
<p>I say cut him off. You better mean it though. You don’t owe him an education. Let him do what he wants but on his dime. This method serves me well and I don’t give a flying fig what other parents do with their children. Sure you might lose him over this decision but you might save you relationship too.</p>