<p>^^zoo, good question!!</p>
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<p>No.
In fact many of you on this thread have given good, cogent arguments against my POV and I’ve processed these. I would have preferred my son to have:
- Discussed this with me prior to booking the trip
- Engaged in a discussion along these lines with me, rather than taking the done-deal posture that he’s taken.
- Acknowledged the fact that I know a thing or two about how the world works (e.g. nothing’s really “free” and that there are dangerous places in the world) that he doesn’t.</p>
<p>“In this case there is actual danger to his life”
No there is not. you FEAR there might be. Despite the fact that you cannot site one instance where kids were “targeted” while on one of these trips and despite the assurances of parents whose kids HAVE gone on of these trips. you cant protect him from ANY and ALL dangers that YOU perceive for the rest of HIS life. The only way to do that is lock him up in a cellar and throw away the key.</p>
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<p>The letting go part of parenting an adult child is really tough. Or at least it’s tough for me and it seems to be for you as well.</p>
<p>Instead of looking at this as disregarding your concerns, look at it as your son is making his own choice independent of you. That’s what adult children do and at first they tend to do it very awkwardly, like learning to walk. Even those who are still financially dependent on us are moving on. This may be the first time you are going through this but it will not be the last.</p>
<p>To be specific to your situation, I would worry if my son wanted to go to Israel. I worried when he moved from our small town to the heart of Boston for college. I worry still even though he’s show himself to be very adept at city living. When my husband left for Iraq (he was a Marine at the time and in his late 30s), his parents worried terribly but they were supportive at the same time. I think that’s the key in adult parenting and it’s the key here.</p>
<p>Sit down with your son and explain your concerns. Your opinion does matter to him, whether he shows that or not. Then let go. Three little words that sound so easy and could not be more difficult. Wish him well and express your faith in him that he can grow and change. Find someone other than him to vent your worries and concerns too after your initial conversation. He needs your support, again, whether he shows that or not, it will mean the world to him.</p>
<p>“In this case there is actual danger to his life and that’s where Mr. Nice Guy leaves the room.”</p>
<p>Would data help you on this one? I don’t know where his school is, but it is quite likely that where he is right now, in terms of the actual violence-related death rate, is significantly higher than where he is going. (I always like the U.S.-Pakistan comparison - in 2010, there were 9,600 violence-related deaths in Pakistan, half of them caused by U.S. drones. And if you took away the border areas - both Afghanistan and Kashmir - virtually ALL of Pakistan is safer than the U.S. But perceptions are what they are. And I have friends from India who are afraid to come here, because it is so unsafe - and they have data to back it up!)</p>
<p>Is risk really the issue? And if it is, shouldn’t you have REALLY put your foot down on the fraternity thing, rather than the trip?</p>
<p>Having said that, I still think there are middle grounds, that respect his autonomy, and your concerns and financial commitments. (Being me, had this occurred in my house - it wouldn’t but - I probably would have said he can go, but he can’t accept the gift from the group funding it, as it is not in keeping with my values.)</p>
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Perhaps your son felt that you would have emphatically said “no” without considering his viewpoint, or you wouldn’t have left the decision up to him after discussing it.</p>
<p>The thing is… it is not too late to have this conversation. It might help set up a different process for the next time something like this happens.</p>
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<p>It’s possible that your son thought that going on this trip was no big deal and that therefore there was no particular reason to discuss it with you first. When you reacted negatively to his plans, he may have been startled by your reaction, and he became defensive for this reason.</p>
<p>Others posted before me…</p>
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I totally get that, but in the case of the first two, that horse is out of the barn.</p>
<p>I do think your son should sit down with you and make some plans and arrangements and discuss possible scenarios and outcomes. I absolutely think that should happen and it would be a mistake on your son’s part if it doesn’t and he goes anyway. I’m not good at spontaneity and my kids know that, so I would insist on a plan. Perhaps you could predicate your acceptance on a serious conversation with your son that involves a lot of listening on his part and not a lot of outrage on your part. You might find that you could let him go and feel comfortable in his judgment if you emparted the right skills and information. Just a thought. Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>What Hanna said, except I’d add that making decsions, booking flights himself, etc., these are not signs of immaturity. These are signs of living one’s life. Isn’t that what the parent has spent the first 18 years trying to prepare the child for?</p>
<p>As I have read this thread, I do not understand that he is asking you for any financial assistance caused by taking this trip, correct? Where are you getting the “danger facts” that seem to be a part of your expressed concern?</p>
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Yes, but I’d say that I would want (and actually did) to be kept apprised of planning the first time my kids traveled alone. I guess I think that the first time one does something like that, it can be good to have someone experienced to run things by. I don’t think that’s a sign of immaturity. My D is away now (just turned 22), for the umpteenth time by herself, and I had complete confidence in her ability to handle whatever came because she’s done it before. However, the first time she traveled alone, I did discuss things like ID requirements, baggage checking, security, how not to be taken in by cab drivers, etc. I still think that was helpful. Now she’s a pro!</p>
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<p>The first time my daughter traveled abroad, it was to Northern Ireland. My son went to London for a term abroad two weeks after the Tube bombings in 2005. My daughter is currently living in a country where even the traffic police carry asault rifles.</p>
<p>In no case did it dawn on me to say NO to them going on these trips. None of these trips was as well organized as a Birth Right trip.</p>
<p>There are risks to taking the train into Grand Central Station, or going to the Mall in DC, or going any place where large numbers of folks congregate. </p>
<p>In the end the decision is up to you. What will you do if your son goes on this trip anyway? Will you really cut off his college funding? What do you hope to accomplish by doing this?</p>
<p>My daughter and her cousin always meant to do a Birthright trip but aged out before they could coordinate a time that would work for both of them. </p>
<p>My husband is a non-practicing Jew and I was raised Protestant and no longer participate in any organized religion. At the time DD was seriously exploring Birthright I did enough research to learn that these trips are very security conscious and there are few safer ways to go. I was not even remotely worried that my D and her cousin would totally change their world view because of a ten day trip. By the age of twenty most kids have a pretty strong sense of self. I hoped that it would broaden them and that they would develop a greater appreciation for their Jewish heritage. </p>
<p>That being said, I somewhat disagree with the posters who are stating that the boy is an adult and has a right to do what he wants. Technically yes, he is an adult but he is still on his parent’s dime and it is obvious the the OP feels very strongly. Had there been any mention of the trip before it was booked? Did the boy do his homework and attempt to sell the program to his father? Did he have a discussion about what he felt the trip might do for him? IMHO, that would be the mature approach. H and I had those discussions with our daughter. Even if the OP is being unreasonable, he has his point of view and if his son knew that and arranged the trip anyway…well, I view that as pretty disrespectful. I disagree with some of the OP’s reasons but if at that age my kid pulled a fast one and arranged a trip against my wishes or without discussion I would be one unhappy camper - not to the point of pulling the financial plug but a certain amount of trust would have been lost. And I would tell my D that.</p>
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You’re not listening to the opinions expressed by posters here, including many who’ve been to Israel, on the relative safety of Israel and aren’t looking at any actual data. You have it stuck in your head that ‘Israel’ is a ‘very dangerous’ part of the world despite the fact that it isn’t. Either you’re misinformed on this point and are keeping an absolutely closed mind to looking at it rationally or you’re using it as an excuse, as leverage to prevent your S from going there. </p>
<p>If it’s the former and you’re truly worried about the safety of Israel you need to educate yourself.</p>
<p>If it’s the latter I think you should separate the two points since continuing to hound on the ‘very dangerous’ aspect of a brief trip to Israel will just cause you to lose even more credibility in the eyes of anyone taking a more rational view of this, including your S. You should focus more on the true reasons why you don’t want your S to go to Israel, whatever they are, but as those become less rational you’ll of course have less and less of a convincing argument.</p>
<p>Regardless, is this really something you want to cut your S off over? I can understand cutting off a kid who’s doing drugs, drinking to excess/partying to the point it’s impacting their studies, practicing unethical behavior, etc. but not in the case of your S who wants to do something that would be deemed by most to be educational and mind expanding. Would you also cut him off if he decided to be a member of the opposite political party to yours or maybe just wanted to attend a couple of information sessions by them (I’m relating this to your opposition to being around an Israeli military person)? Your S should be old enough to think for himself.</p>
<p>If he’s profoundly disrespecting you, and I don’t mean just disagreeing with your point of view which is not disrespect, than that’s another issue.</p>
<p>Lets say every thing that boy did on this incident is wrong and it infuriated the OP. But should it be the grounds for op to stop paying the college expenses and sever the father-son relationship? Its your son and his future success is a reflection on you. Do you really want to endanger a young man’s future because he did some thing against your will as trivial as a trip outside of the US? Yes, it might be dagerous, yes, he may need more dicipline. Punish him if you will. But that is not a capital crime, armed robbery, drug addiction, spy for the enemy or betrayal of the family that we are talking about. It is mearly a trip.</p>
<p>Lighten up, OP, your son has a bright future, don’t ruin it for some thing like this.</p>
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I know this is horrible sexist stereotyping, but I might find it a little easier to accept this as the primary motivation if you were the mom. But since you’re the dad, I can’t help feeling that his defiance of your will is the real issue. That’s why you keep talking about “respect.” Consider the possibility that he had no idea that this would be such a hot button–after all, he’s a Jewish kid, why should he expect that his parents–both Jewish–would object to his taking a free trip to Israel, like lots of others do? And ask yourself honestly whether it would have really made a big difference if he had discussed it with you in advance. If it would have made no difference, that’s a red herring. If it would have made a difference, then this isn’t really about the trip in the first place.</p>
<p>I think that punishing an adult child is always very hurtful and counter productive. </p>
<p>It’s that simple.</p>
<p>It says that
- you don’t think he’s capable of handling his own life,
- that your love is conditional
- that you are prepared to hurt him on purpose to avenge an insult
and - that his own free will means nothing to you. </p>
<p>My father and step-mom hurt me on purpose over something petty after the birth of my oldest. It was truly mind boggling to me. I didn’t see it coming. Though the wounds eventually healed somewhat, my relationship with my father was never the close relationship that we had before the “incident”. The scars remained no matter how much we tried to heal them. </p>
<p>Forgive and forget they say, but it’s hard to forget when I keep getting reminded. </p>
<p>I think you should bite your lip, let him go, embrace him when he comes back and that’s it.</p>
<p>I don’t even think you need to bite your lip. I think you’re perfectly justified in complaining that he didn’t consult you, and in making it clear that you don’t think he should go. But I think you should then tell him that it’s his decision, and you shouldn’t punish him for going.</p>
<p>But when he wants to move in with his drug-addict girlfriend, THEN cut him off.</p>
<p>Here’s a list of the 10 most dangerous cities in 2011. [10</a> Most Dangerous Cities in the World in 2011 !!!](<a href=“http://urbantitan.com/10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-in-2011/]10”>http://urbantitan.com/10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-in-2011/) I hope he doesn’t go to WashU, as St Louis is # 3!! No city in Israel made the list, btw.</p>
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<p>Why does it have to be framed as being disrespectful? You’re leaving this adult son two choices; 1. do as his father says and be respectful or 2. do not do as his father says and be disrespectful.</p>
<p>I believe it’s entirely possible that this son knew his father’s opinion and simply disagrees with his father. Or booked the trip thinking his parents would approve, found out his father doesn’t approve and still wants to go. </p>
<p>When asked (and even when I’m not asked!), I offer my opinion to my son but I don’t take it personally if he comes to a different conclusion.</p>
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<p>We can say that about everything in life. Why chance it? Because that’s what life is! Life is for living and that involves taking risks.</p>