<p>I think that so many of us get so caught up in the crazy that often characterizes our family that we don’t recognize it for what it is…or we don’t think it’s as bad as it really is because we are used to it.<br>
I remember going to my Hs house (then my boyfriend) for the first time for dinner. I was stunned that people weren’t yelling at each other. I was so used to that in my own home that I didn’t realize that you don’t have to live that way…with those people.</p>
<p>Weddings seem to bring out the worst in people - or at least throw back the covers over some normally hidden conflicts.</p>
<p>I remember my future sister-in-law (marrying my husband’s brother) explaining to me that they were having H in the wedding but not me because “You’re not blood. We’re having all blood relatives in the wedding.” It was just such a creepy way to put it! Really, I wasn’t offended that I was left out of the wedding party until she said that! For the next 20 years, whenever I had a problem with my in-laws, my Mom would say, “Well remember dear, you’re not blood. :p” </p>
<p>For years I also had a difficult relationship with H’s sister. She’s a spoiled only daughter with 3 brothers, who hated that I got along with her mother better than she did, and once admitted to H that she was mad at me because I “stole” him from her and took him 200 miles away - even though the only reason we moved was for H’s job! Anyway, when I got married, I gritted my teeth, extended an olive branch and asked her to be a bridesmaid. She said yes, then did everything she could to cause me grief without being obvious enough for her mom to yell at her. Among her antics: she spent two weeks limping around and claiming she needed surgery on her calf muscle and would have to be on crutches for the wedding (didn’t happen, and when everyone ignored her the leg miraculously got better), she showed up late when we were getting ready for the wedding, then supplied my 17 year old brother and his girlfriend with drinks at the reception. When she got married 4 years later, she didn’t ask me to be in her wedding but she asked the other SIL (the one who isn’t blood). I never said a word - I didn’t want to be in her wedding party anyway, but it did seem like a bit of a slap in the face. But what was worse - she has 3 female cousins who are all sisters. She had the oldest and youngest in the wedding party, but not the middle cousin. Why? The obvious and only reason I know of is that the middle sister weighed 300 lbs.</p>
<p>Yup, if there’s a problem in a family, it will come out when there’s a wedding.</p>
<p>IMHO, If ZM’s sister raised her when she was young, that outweighs everything else if her sister wants her present. The credit her sister earned does nt run out until one person dies.</p>
<p>The kids on both sides are immaterial to this equation irrespective of how bad they are or how bad they were treated by the kid. </p>
<p>So who is accompanying ZM from CC forum?</p>
<p>This drama is amazing, and not just ZM’s situation; it is the sharing of many other similar situations by other posters. I thought this kind of a thing happened only on TV. I just saw this movie called Bridesmaids. Seems like it could very well be real. Wow!</p>
<p>The funniest wedding story I ever heard was my friend’s. She married a Jewish man, whose mother was against the wedding because my friend is not Jewish. She took many actions to avert the marriage, without success. Her final attempt was to take to her bed the day before the wedding with heart palpitations - surely the wedding would be cancelled. My friend’s (now) DH said, “Too bad, Mom. We’ll miss you.” Somehow the woman found the strength to rise from her bed, get her hair done, and show up at the wedding.</p>
<p>Real life stories are posted here, and to mock them is , shall we say… “off topic”.</p>
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<p>The history between Zoos and her sister possibly explains her sister’s resentment and Zoos longstanding loyalty (as well as difficulty breaking free from the abusive relationship). It in no way gives her sister a free pass to abuse the relationship, nor does it discount the kids as collateral damage. Being responsible for a younger sibling as a teen is not easy, but let’s face it people deal with far greater things and move on in life.</p>
<p>^The fact that she can’t control her daughter or turns a blind eye does nt make her abusive to ZM. If you reverse the situation, her own mother did the same thing to her by putting her incharge of ZM. She did nt say no to her mom and she can’t say no to her daughter. IMHO, if anyone is being abused, it is ZM’s sister since she is being dealt a bad hand by people she is associated with.</p>
<p>*The fact that she can’t control her daughter or turns a blind eye does nt make her abusive to ZM. *</p>
<p>Say what? There are posts detailing what Sis has done wrong, by choice- and verging on abuse. Or abuse of the sister relationship. Blaming D2’s exclusion on the niece is a recent issue.</p>
<p>Any wrong done to Sis was when done when she was younger, no? It can be a factor, but is not an excuse for current actions. She is paying a big part of the wedding costs and, typically, should have some say-so in guests. So, if she were a person of wiser character, she would have insisted that 6, not 5, of her family be included at a wedding with 250 guests. We are not talking about more than half from the bride’s side of the family. We are talking about a measly number. Also, in my book, if there is inequity in wealth, the mother of the bride would have offered to cover all of ZM’s “plates.”</p>
<p>Likewise, she would have kept her opinions of the bf quiet. She is not helpless in this dysfunction.</p>
<p>credit her sister earned does nt run out until one person dies
Not exactly: in my book, one should respect that sacrifice forever, but draw a line when the other abuses either that history or, here, ZM and D2. Seems to me ZM is trying to respect that history (she said not permanently break ties with the woman who raised her.) That translates to: go to some part of this ceremony as well as go to help her mom and brother. </p>
<p>The subtler quetion is whether ZM has the abilty to limit Sis’s damaging behaviors after the wedding. (Or even at the wedding.)</p>
<p>Gee ZM… I wonder if you realized how much armchair psychoanalysis you were going to get when you posed the question, “Should I attend THIS wedding?”</p>
<p>“So, if she were a person of wiser character, she would have insisted that 6, not 5, of her family be included at a wedding with 250 guests.”</p>
<p>May be she considers the big contingent of husband’s side her family too. No one in the family was invited to the D’s 16th birthday based on D’s wishes. So 5 or 6 does seem like a major improvement.</p>
<p>JYM626 - Is there such a complex that implies “doormat”?</p>
<p>“IMHO, If ZM’s sister raised her when she was young, that outweighs everything else if her sister wants her present. The credit her sister earned does nt run out until one person dies.”</p>
<p>That IMO is probably as dangerous an idea as exists out there, it is dangerous because in effect it says that if someone did something right or sacrificed something, that somehow that means that anything they do is automatically wiped away, which among others things, is giving them carte blanche to do what they want. It is like telling an abused child that it was their duty to forgive their parents and ignore their continuing abusive behavior, because, after all, they raised the child and fed it and so forth. I have heard that from people who should know better, including pastoral counsellors at church, and it raises my blood pressure a lot. The problem with it is it totally obliterates the feelings of the person who suffered, it totally wipes them out of the picture and says they don’t matter because, after all, they ‘owe’ the other person.</p>
<p>It is one thing to respect what someone has done, but it also cannot be used as a get out of jail free card. I wouldn’t be surprised if ZM’s sister had issues with what happened, that she was forced in effect to raise her sister, and has issues with what happened, but that doesn’t make her blameless, either, for the way she is acting and unfortunately there are a lot of abusive people who get away with stuff like this because of that attitude. The problem is that her sister has been able to use guilt and such to keep people in line, and that isn’t good or healthy for anyone.</p>
<p>EPTR, your post is spot dead on, the description you give fits my family as well, same thing. I went through therapy to deal with family issues and depression, and I can remember relating things that happened, where my father would go off the deep end up ridiculous things, where punishment didn’t fit the crime and so forth, and I would sit there with a smile on my face saying things like “It was just the way he was” or “its no big deal”. I can remember talking about the tension in my family, the anger and such, and describing what happened with myself and my siblings, and saying something my parents had said for years “That is the way siblings are, they fight and so forth”…it wasn’t until I saw other friends and their siblings, and saw my therapists family (4 kids, all of whom in adulthood really like each other) that I realized that was a crock, that my parents were trying to rationalize a situation they had helped create, as being ‘normal’.</p>
<p><<<< quietly tip-toe-ing through with my fingers in my ears… la…la…la…>>>>></p>
<p>How’s this for arm chair psych… Zoos’s sister allows her daughter (the niece) to behave as a spoiled rotten brat, as opposed to a mature adult, because she (the sister) resents being pushed into a position of maturity at a young age to care for Zoos. She allowed this through her teens (remember the massive birthday party Zoos wasn’t invited to), and it just carried on into her adult years. Now at 30yo the niece is certainly responsible for her own behavior but she’s a product of her mother allowing (possibly encouraging) her immature behavior. </p>
<p>Could be…we all drag our childhood into parenthood. I did, for better and for worse. My kids didn’t have sugared cereal because I didn’t. Only public TV until the oldest was 7… I gave up after that. Too many forces against me (including a MIL who insisted on cartoon network :mad: ).</p>
<p>In my family, the “system” of insanity will NEVER go away because there is at least one person who NEEDS it to function that way for him to cope. He also has authority based on his position. But I gander that even if he was not the patriarch, his total blindness, his unwillingness to open up OR see things behind his or others’ action makes it impossible for him to WANT to change, let alone change. When one person is so set in his or her crazy ways, the others fall in OR react in their own toxic ways. Nothing is neutral or normal anymore. Maybe if one person had a powerful presence for goodness or calmness, this toxicity could be de-activated a bit. Control is a big issue underneath, so it is really unlikely that anyone could do that. I cannot play that role, even though I “see” all the “truth” because the others do not see, or do not want to see, or find the truth to be so unpleasant. So status quo is what we get.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
What bad we know is better than what we do not know, however better it might be- change is scary.
What works today is a crutch, even if it does not work well. </p>
<p>Op- you are in a very complex family system. May you be able to break the cycle within your nuclear family and its progeny!!! It is so great that you have talked openly and with mutual respect with your children about this, no harm done, and maybe some good will come of it for you!!!</p>
<p>BlueIguana - I can sympathize with you about TV.</p>
<p>We moved into a different home about 6 years ago and took that as an opportunity not to hook up cable in order to curtail our kids’ tantrums when TV got turned off.</p>
<p>We had nephews visit us from both sides of the family. All of the nephews asked me (8-10 year olds) if I was broke because of the new home and can’t afford cable because they just could nt imagine a home without cable.</p>
<p>My kids figured out how to use their computers to get to their shows and although we put back cable about 3 years ago, the kids no longer cared.</p>
<p>I am wondering about something - the basis for zm’s sister’s bad behavior is her resentment that she was forced to take responsibility for zm. But the reason that this was necessary was not that zm’s mother was alcoholic, drug-addicted, or otherwise negligent. She was dealing with a seriously ill child. It seems that, at some point, the sister should have been mature enough to understand her mother’s situation and have some compassion for her, and come to terms with the effects on her own life, instead of continuing to “punish” zm and her mother.</p>
<p>zmom, I have been following this thread–I think everyone (or almost everyone) has their own unique brand of family drama and being in the process of planning a wedding as I am, I expect some to come out. I just noticed that your beginning post was June 15 and you mentioned the wedding was in “a couple of months”–has it happened already?</p>
<p>It seems that, at some point, the sister should have been mature enough to understand her mother’s situation and have some compassion for her, and come to terms with the effects on her own life, instead of continuing to “punish” zm and her mother.</p>
<p>Well theoretically, but rationality doesn’t come into play with family relationships as much as you would hope. My sister, who was a * spoiled* baby of the family, complained for years about various slights even though from my perspective as the * neglected* oldest, she had a pretty good deal.</p>
<p>the basis for zm’s sister’s bad behavior is her resentment …</p>
<p>We really don’t now what the basis is. Only that it exists. We dont know if it’s payback, jealousy, some slight from elsewhere that she can’t shake or simple bad attitude.</p>