<p>Have we reached a verdict yet?</p>
<p>Yes, we’ve voted to send you to escort mom. They’ve earned that.</p>
<p>He would be delighted! Imagine the fun IP would have at this wedding.</p>
<p>The first time that I heard the term “cover the plate” was from my D’s boyfriend. He was originally from New Jersey. Out here we tend to give gifts, rather than money. And while I’ve never kept score, I would say that my gifts have more than covered the plate(s).</p>
<p>Zoosermom: We have more in common than I realized. My mil was interested in climbing into “society”. My fil was very successful. Bil was, with the nanny, a surrogate father and mother to my husband. If wasn’t a job that he wanted, nor was it a job that he did well. My husband “owed” him nothing. Has he paid him back? Yes, he has done tens of thousands of dollars of free professional service. When my in laws and his wife refused to seat Jews in their house, he actively sided with them because that’s who paid him. </p>
<p>Your mother may “owe” your sister. You do not. And, from VERY personal experience (although my daughter was younger) no matter how understanding/confident/etc. your daughter may be, she was rejected for being her. </p>
<p>Families are convoluted and there are permutations in all scenarios. I appreciate your mother’s desire to see the wedding, but I value the nuclear family far more.</p>
<p>I hate to suggest it, but everyone in your sister’s family was scrambling when they thought it was possible no one would come. Your nephew wanted to know how his sister could put things right with you and your D and your sister was upset at the thought that nobody would be there. Then - nothing. Seems to me you may still have the leverage here to ask for the conversation that never happened at the BBQ, but was supposed to. More to the point, I think your sister needs to know for a fact thst her decisions will have far reaching consequences. Right now, I think she is clueless and thinks everything is fine between the two of you. If that is not the case, IMO you owe it to her to tell her how you feel. </p>
<p>Originally, I thought this could all wait until after the wedding. But your sister needs to realize that you consider the exclusion of your child to be her choice as the host, not just her D’s. Yes, in some families some cousins are not as close as others - but this is a situation that involves a young adult cousin, still in college, still defined by her nuclear family. It’s a snub caused by a rift that has affected everyone, and from which you were ALL apparently asked to move on. What is wrong with this picture?</p>
<p>I’m sorry, i just couldn’t go if my D was snubbed like that. That’s beyond rude. And your mother should understand that.</p>
<p>The memory book thing… I’d be looking for a way to tell these people that their behavior is beyond the pale, but not in a vindictive way. Zmom still has fond memories of her niece in spite of everything that’s happened, but to be seen as somehow condoning or submitting to the abuse that’s been occurring is not OK. Money seems to be the only language that they understand, so withholding a gift with monetary value should get the point across.</p>
<p>And I think that making a memory book and writing the letter would be a healing experience. A way to remember the past in a loving way before shutting the door and moving on.</p>
<p>Zmom, given the family situation, and the needs of your mom and brother I think you are handling this trying situation as best as possible. Your sister will clearly get the message when your DH isn’t there, has already heard from your daughter’s. It’s clear that your family is done with this, you are attending as mom’s caregiver and your brother’s friend. Given the specifics, what more could you do?
You have to be comfortable with your decisions. I applaud your ability to come up with anything resembling a workable idea with all the stress. I hope your mother is feeling better today. A few days with no wedding conversation would likely benefit everyone.</p>
<p>^^This would actually be a wonderful gift, because it would be from the heart and personal.</p>
<p>Zm-</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing about your reasons for wanting to go, I know it isn’t easy sharing about hard issues like this from personal experience. I can understand your reasons for going, why you feel you should, both to support your brother and your mom, and the nature of the relationship and I have to disagree with others going makes you a doormat, and here is why. Years ago, when I was in the middle of a major mess with my birth family (which ended only when I cut off ties, or rather they did), an uncle died who had been the cause of much grief. I remember talking to my therapist about it, and I was really angry, and wanted to go to the funeral and go in a way that I knew would cause the rest of the family to be outraged, etc…my therapist, who was as tough as they come about family and such not pushing you around, asked me if going was something I needed to do, to show I wasn’t afraid and proud of who I was/what I had done, or was I doing it for revenge? She said I should go if I was doing it for myself, but if I was doing it out of some sort of concept of revenge, forget it. </p>
<p>It sounds to me like you pass that test, that you are doing it for yourself, that you need to do this and get closure and I can really understand that (I would understand whatever you chose to do, knowing how nasty things like this are). I think your D understands, I really commend you for talking to her about it, so she knows you are on her side and have your own reasons for going this time, I wouldn’t worry about her:)</p>
<p>Just out of curiousity, since your mom seems to be a lot of the reason for you and your brother going, how does she feel about all this? Or is she really aware of what your S is like and so forth? I don’t think it factors into the decision at all, just curious about the dynamic there.</p>
<p>As far as going down the road from what I have seen from what you have written, this is not a unique situation, this has been the dynamic, with the niece being a nasty piece of work and the mom with issues of her own. If that is the case, I am not so sure, as a poster suggested, that you could in effect ‘train’ your sister to change, one axiom that I have yet to find fault with is that people don’t change unless they want to, unless they see a reason to. It sounds like because of the past, your sister has a lot of issues, anger, whatever, and it doesn’t sound like she has been able or willing to put those aside and gain closure on her end, so maintaining the relationship to try and change her I would really doubt is going to work. </p>
<p>My only suggestion is if you decide to break off from your sister, always keep the door open. One thing to be wary of is if you break it off and she doesn’t even seem to acknowledge it, that would tell you she probably isn’t any where near acknowledging something is wrong. It almost sounds to me as if she is focused on her own hurts, and isn’t able even to recognize that maybe, just maybe, you have legitimate issues with her. I have dealt with that with a sibling of mine, when I have opened the door to a dialog, what it turned into was a one way barrage of all the ‘hurts’ or ‘pains’ they felt, and blamed me for, and not one acknowledgement that maybe, just maybe, i had hurts and pains, and when it is like that, you might as well try to convince a cat that a warm sofa is not a good place to snooze the day away in:). </p>
<p>It also sounds like you could use the space to work on your own issues in all this, to be honest. For example, it is really hard when you have had a close relationship with someone, or in your case where you had your sister de facto raising you, where there was some sort of felt debt or obligation, to deal with the other person. Again, in my own life, I was very close to my sister growing up, we had a very close bond, and when everything came apart it was really, really hard for me to reconcile protecting myself while hurting that relationship, there was a lot of guilt and such…but space and time let me see a lot of things, that I had always honored that relationship as best I could, in many ways unhealthily so, and that I had legitimate reasons to need to break it off, to protect myself, and as the relationship stood there was no way to maintain the relationship and heal from it. Primarily, because she couldn’t break with the past and form something new…and my gut feeling, based on the little I know, is you are facing something similar. If it were my call, I would say go to the wedding, support mom and bro, find a way to have a good time as best as possible, and use that as the curtain call for the relationship as you seem to be doing…and then, take this time to break it off for a while, work on making yourself stronger in terms of your feelings towards your sister, let go of your own issues, and then maybe sometime down the road, see if there is any way to reconcile when you have the strength to do so…</p>
<p>It sounds to me like you are coming to a place of strength with all this and are also able to put it into perspective enough not to let it kill you. Quite frankly, family dramas when looked at from the outside are absurd, my own included, and if you can laugh at some of it, as I now can, makes the very real hurt hurt just a little less:)</p>
<p>Has it been established how old the bride is? And how many people are invited to this wedding? And who is paying for it?</p>
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<p>I don’t know that this should be interpreted as “Aunt flat out told her that cousin did not want her.” If you had an adult daughter who was planning her wedding with a limited guest list and limited finances, and a niece called up to say she was hurt she wasn’t invited, what would you say? “My daughter and her fiance determined the guest list themselves, as it is their wedding.” “They limited the wedding to 100 guests due to space and finances, and if they invited the bride’s much younger cousin from whom she (and her family) had been estranged from for years, they could not have invited a close co-worker/his college roommate/our long-time neighbor and close family friend.” I don’t know what the circumstances are or were, but “this is what her daughter wants” could mean this sort of stuff, couldn’t it?</p>
<p>Zoosermom, you said in your first post in this thread that you didn’t go to your sister’s son’s wedding several years ago because you were estranged from that family, and you hadn’t talked to your niece in five years before this came up. You also said your sister had told you that kids were not going to be invited to this wedding.</p>
<p>Everyone knows that a blood tie does not mean a relationship exists. I suggest you do what you want with regard to this wedding and reception, because I highly doubt your “relationship” with this niece or your sister will be improved or worsened as result of whatever you do.</p>
<p>ZM, please realize that no matter what happens, your sister is not going to change. It is clearly evident that your sister delights in the turmoil that is being caused and is using her daughter as the excuse for what is happening. This way she bears no responsibility because " this is what her daughter wants". This is her payback to you and your mother and perhaps your father for robbing her of her youth. Not saying that this is what happened, but it may be her perception and subconscious. Nothing is by accident. She really needs psychiatric help. I do hope you will walk away after the reception. You will feel so much happier and peaceful.</p>
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Oh my God jym, you should have warned me! I just snorted and spit all over the computer.</p>
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I don’t even know what to say to that. Even in my family that would be shocking.</p>
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She is going to be 30, I believe there are 250 people (but I might be slightly off, so let’s say more than 200), and my sister is paying for at least half.</p>
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That’s how it should be interpreted. The niece has always singled out this daughter. They are ten years apart.</p>
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All of those things are true. By “kids” I meant folks under 18. No hard feelings that the little guy isn’t invited. He shouldn’t be.</p>
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True that.</p>
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That is unquestionably her perception. And I do understand.</p>
<p>I admit that I am curious as to why you think the niece has singled out your 10 years younger daughter for years. My kids have either cordial or indifferent relations with their cousins(mostly because of distance). You seem to have a complicated family situation with your sister. Have you and your sister ever really tried to talk about the loss, dynamics with her having to be your primary caretaker as a teenager and what that meant for both of you? I agree with those who are suggesting that it may be too early to write off the relationship with your sister. All the best.</p>
<p>200 plus people? More thoughts:</p>
<p>This much tumult might be too much for your mother. Remember: at all venues there are far fewer ladies stalls (Lord, I can’t believe that I’m talking toilets!) than are needed. Yes, there is always a handicapped stall. Try and get past a middle aged women in an evening gown who has to tinkle! Not happening.</p>
<p>With so many people the noise level may be very high…in addition to the pushing and shoving.</p>
<p>Your niece is thirty?! We can’t even do the “oh, she’s still unformed.” No, she’s a nasty person, with, as Freud said, “an ugly personality.” She is aided by your sister. This is not about the cost of an aide…200 people at, I imagine $350 per person or much more, one more or less doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>Oh, your mother probably won’t “see” anything anyway. Do you honestly think she going down the aisle? Do you honestly think that either of you will have a place of honor as family? Your daughter isn’t being invited because the niece doesn’t like her? Seriously? In the throng of people would there have been a beam of light on her? Insult me once…I’ll clarify. Hurt my kid on purpose? You are out of my life. </p>
<p>I know my abusive and vile people. They do not change. It has been my experience that turning the other cheek with people like this brings bruising and whiplash.</p>
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Oh my God I didn’t even think of that.</p>
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well she won’t be until the beginning of November, but that’s pretty close.</p>
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No. We expect to be placed quietly at the back in both the ceremony and reception. But that’s really our request so we don’t have to traverse the whole place if mom needs to leave.</p>
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That’s what I’ve been led to believe. It could just as easily be concern that she won’t cover the plate. Possibly some combination of both.</p>
<p>Whether your child isn’t invited because your gift won’t be “enough” or because the niece doesn’t “like” her defines the character of the bride and her mother.</p>
<p>When my husband had his aha! moment(s) with his family’s character it wasn’t pleasant. It was devastating. But he has looked these people in the face and knows them for who they are and the content of their character. That has given him some measure of peace.</p>
<p>Either of those reasons is a despicable way to treat anyone let alone family. The “covering the plate” thing…it’s like buying a ticket to a sporting event! If you can afford it, you get to go. If not, well, your outta luck regardless of your relationship with the couple. Crazy!!!</p>
<p>Shame on them.</p>