I own a growing business, am a URM, multiple coding and design related extracurriculars, and am training to score high on the SAT and ACT and am self studying for AP exams, however my GPA is a 2.8. Should I still apply to high ranked colleges?
Your chances of getting in if you apply are automatically higher than if you donât apply!
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Lots of questions- starting with what you consider a high-ranked college.
Self-studying APs is not a tip when applying to US colleges.
You only need SAT OR ACt- no extra points for having both.
Remember that the higher the ranking / prestige the greater the competition for places, which in turn leads to high achieving / highly motivated /highly disciplined students which in turn can make it more challenging to be successful once you get there.
What are you looking for from a college, and why do you think that you would like the âhigh-rankedâ colleges that you are interested in (besides the glory of the name)?
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what I mean by a high ranked college is self explanatory, a college that is highly ranked (T50).
What do you mean by self studying for APs isnât a tip?
For what I am looking for from these colleges is the resources and the student body. To be placed around people who are just as or even more motivated than I am, and to have access to a plethora of high quality resources will help me plenty in my journey to becoming a tech CEO.
I should also note that I have reasons and circumstances that caused my low grades and I have an upward trend with A+s (with a few Bs) since 2nd semester of my sophomore year.
Your high-ranked is T50- but I have seen it range from T10-T100, which is why I asked.
AdComms in the US do not give an admissions boost for AP scores that you self-studied. They want you to take the class and use non-class time for ECs that are meaningful to you, not spend it swotting up for standardized tests.
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I only want to take extra AP exams so I can further tell colleges that I can handle the coursework.
Since I donât know if my low GPA will disqualify me outright, I decided that Iâll overcompensate as much as possible so I can (maybe) be closer if not on the same level as other applicants (unless it doesnât, which ill still do them but keep that in mind).
As for ECs, I am finishing learning new coding languages and plan on competing in tournaments and hackathons later this year, as well as completing some personal projects that I have and growing my small business. I also forgot to mention that I am learning a few languages for personal reasons (if this will help my application at all).
So for my original question, is it still worth applying to those colleges?
And as collegemon3717 said, this wonât mean much at top colleges.
Whether itâs âworthâ applying depends on your perception of the time involved in filling out applications, writing essays, etc. While itâs true your chance is higher by applying than by not applying, a 2.8 will be a challenge at any USNews Top 50 National University (as a proxy for âT50â).
Not that I fully trust their data, but if I filter the USNews National Universities by GPA, I have to go up to a 3.4 to get an entry in the top 100. 3.6 breaks into the top 50.
Standardized test scores, ECs, etc., all go into an admissions decision, so stength in those areas helps. But GPA/course rigor is the #1 factor in admissions.
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Your low GPA represents weekly efforts. Or issues comprehending. Also, that your knowledge base is lower. Next to nothing, no sort of explanation, can make that change. In addition to the questions about academic suitability for a particular target, they can wonder if the business and/or other activities are a distraction or mis-placed priorities- about your thinking and choices about where to invest effort. That all matters. The side things are not a trump card.
Just how do you think " I can further tell colleges that I can handle the coursework," which is speculative, if theyâre looking at issues with the present work?
Thereâs a big difference between Top 50 and Top 30.
âYour chances of getting in if you apply are automatically higher than if you donât applyâ
Nonsense. An example of nonsense thinking. You canât get rejected, if you arenât a candidate. But that doesnât change the reality of rejection possibilities, when oneâs not a suitable applicant.
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@wiindbreaker
APPLY. You have a lot to possibly gain and nothing to lose but time and application fees. If youâre cool with spending your time and a little money, go for it.
REALIZE. Your chance of being admitted to a T50 university is incredibly low. Letâs look at #53 Villanova which has an overall admit rate of 28%. Only 1% of incoming freshmen last year had a high school GPA below 3.0, and only 6% of incoming freshmen were below 3.5. Your chances will not be promising. To be blunt, your chances will be closer to zero than even 5% for most of the T50 schools. Dream, but realize reality.
PLAN. Take your shot with some T50 schools if thatâs your dream, but also create a plan for yourself that will have a greater chance for success. This means investigating more schools in the 90-150 range and beyond. This also means investigating Liberal Arts Colleges in the 40-100 range.
GUARANTEE. Cover your bases by applying to 3-4 in-state public universities that you are certain to be admitted to and your family can afford. This way, if your dream schools deny admittance and your target schools do the same or prove too expensive, you have an option for college.
Keep working hard.
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Why is your GPA so low? GPA is the most important part of your application. It shows your ability to do school work over time. High test scores and low GPA show that you are capable but not applying yourself well. Add in a lot of extracurriculars and it indicates that you are focusing on what goes on outside of school instead of in school. It looks like you are spending way too much time on your ECs and not studying.
That is not what top colleges are looking for. They want people who put school first, and then spend their extra time doing other activities. I think these schools are out of reach for you.
Self studying APs doesnât help. It would help if you had taken APs in school and had gotten Aâs in them.
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- When you apply to college in the US you have, in essence, 6 semesters of academic work to demonstrate your abilities. From your post it sounds as though you have 3 very poor semesters and 3 very good semesters.
IMO it is grossly unfair that work from age 14 / Grade 9 so heavily affects your college chances and choices: 17/18 year old you should be evaluated much more than 13/14 year old you, as that is who will be attending*. Unfortunately, there are huge numbers of students who were mature / ambitious / self-disciplined / lucky enough that they have a strong record right the way through- and they will be applying for the same spots at the same schools that you want to go to.
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For colleges that are not need-blind (which is lots of them), how much financial aid you need plays a part in whether they offer you a place. So, money first: do you need financial aid, and if so, how much? For the ones who are need-blind and âmeet needâ is what they will expect you to pay affordable to your family (there is often a difference between what the college thinks your family can pay and what your family thinks they can pay). Run the NPCs
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@lookingforward regularly beats the drum of âfigure out what the college(s) you are applying to are looking forâ- what they value. So far (at least here) you are looking at colleges by rank, not by how they fit you / your goals - or how you fit them. The better the fit between you and them the better your odds are. Public universities will typically put more weight on stats (to be fair, they are looking at huge numbers of apps); LACs (especially ones that donât have to subsidize you) will have more time to look at your story, both the backstory on your early grades and your story about who you are / where you are going / how you and the LAC are a good fit for each other.
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That means sorting this out:
What do those ECs tell the universities about you - either as a student or as a prospective member of the community?
*In much of the world the main thing that matters for admission to university is what you do in the last 1/2 years of secondary school
this is a reply to @me29034 as well.
The reason why my GPA is low mainly has to do with Depression and suicidal thoughts from Middle School (From problems including constant bullying) and it took me a long time to recover from it, unfortunately. Why I didnât reach out for help is personal and wonât be shared here.
Most of my low grades were from my Freshman Year and the first semester of my Sophomore Year, where I got a few As. Majority Bs with one D.
My ECs were not misplaced priorities, I acquired them during the 2nd semester of my Sophomore year, the same time that I recovered from my depression and found my passion (Tech and Design, if thatâs not obvious) and a reason to live. Since then Iâve been getting high scores in every class.
Unless the reasons I listed are something that colleges wonât care about and wonât take into account, Iâll yield to your advice and either apply (imo Iâd rather gamble and lose than not gamble and regret it later), go to a state school (unlikely, since that would defeat the point of what Iâm looking for from a college, with some exceptions) or just not got to college altogether,
Since I am going to college for the resources they offer and if there arenât any, or I can find the same resources elsewhere, then I donât see the point of bursting a blood vessel over it.
I hope my ECs will tell colleges that I am deeply invested in my goals and that attending their college will bring me closer to those goals.
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Serious advice coming.
âand that attending their college will bring me closer to those goals.â
Please rethink this (or this wording.) Granted, my experience is with a âmost competitive.â But schools can be very sensitive when an applicant says that the target college is a means to an end, oneâs personal goals (usually, post-grad.) They feel you should understand the particular college and 4 year experience they offer. It can also be viewed as a generic explanation- i.e., any top college will do it for you, that itâs just one of many with the prestige you want. Thatâs not showing the love.
Even if you tell us that, well, you want the rigor, the higher level of peers, etc, over the 4 years (which is legit,) their reaction can still be this sensitivity to whether you want that colege or just any great one. Be careful.
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If you are going to gamble, gamble smart. You mention T50. Pretty sure you wonât apply to all 50, so put some work into figuring out which 6-8 of those 50 (the rest of your apps should be from colleges where your odds of admission are high).
Look at the goals that you are âdeeply investedâ in: which specific colleges fit those best? Look at the nature of those college campuses- do some seem like a more natural âfitâ for you? All your ECs are very solitary (learning languages, studying APs- neither of which will not help with admissions btw- coding, âpersonal projectsâ, etc): which colleges are ones at which you are likely to find a place as a member of the community? Identify some colleges that seem like the best fit, then look for other colleges that are strong in those particular characteristics (even if they are very different otherwise).
And donât forget to consider finances!!
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Also consider applying to some community or junior colleges. If you show high achievement here plus a strong upward HS trend, transferring in to a T50 may be a realistic track.
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Some x-post with collegemom3717
I donât have an issue with you applying, especially for the reasons you state. (I had this decision, chose not to apply, and yes, regret not at least getting the skinny envelope.)
As for the ECs. The issue is that somehow, your grades slipped. That cold reality. Itâs about impressions that form. And THEY may be assuming it was an issue of priorities. You canât control for that. Especially not in a competitive situation, where lots of fully solid kids apply and more are rejected than admitted.
And another consideration, sorry about this. A business and/or coding projects are surprisingly common. Or common enough that theyâre not a special âit.â The coding is usually done solo- and there they are, looking for kids who engage with others, who collaborate. Even if you say, well, I have a mentor, there are a few others who work with me, anyone runs the risk it will be perceived as independent work.
Kids often think the amount they earn from a business is a plus. The colleges donât look at it that way. Thatâs assuming the dollars (or more dollars than expected) are some tip. It just doesnât factor that way.
So, you have a cautious walk ahead of you. Do your best to think this through, have something of a strategy, based on what you do learn about your targets and what they value- from them, their web sites and other, not what 3rd parties say. Dig deep. And remember, no strategy is effective without some better understanding. Itâs not random. Not any sort of wishful thinking.
The backstory: whatâs impressive is the kid who endured something and still managed rigor and the grades/scores, including through the crisis. Then, any single freshman problem (say that blasted C grade in some core,) can be put into perspective.
It matters what classes got the lower grades- and how low. Those related to your potential major can be a different issue than some elective or drivers ed. Adcoms at Top 50 will be looking at the transcript, see the specific record of rigor and grades. They focus less on the cumulative gpa. If you have a copy of the transcript, you can try to view it as they will.
See why we say you need a different way of loooking at all this? And some strategy
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I understand everything you are saying, but isnât there an Additional Comments (or something like that) on the Common App? Maybe that could be a way for me to put my situation in perspective?
For the coding, my projects are done with me and my group of friends, employees and volunteers. While the group is small, there are a considerable amount of people interested in the completed project. I also plan on doing hackathons later this year which will also be done with a group of people. The only things I do alone are personal projects or projects that I want to expand on in the future, and I wonât be showing those to admissions.
My last few questions are the following:
What coding related activities impress colleges? I already know of coding tournaments like USACO and IOI, but I think Iâm too late for it and that I canât compete in them because my school doesnât have a team. No-one in my school codes either.
A follow-up question to the previous one: Do you know of any coding events/tournaments that take place later this year, or where to look for them? Iâm still looking for those.
Also, do you know any design related events/tournaments that happen later this year?
Lastly, if I participate in an event, tournament or achieve something after I submit my application, how can I let admissions know? Do I edit my application or email them, or can I not at all?
Unless there are more questions that come from your response, I donât think I will bump/post to this thread any longer, as most of my answers have been answered already. If any more questions arise ill either have to wait and see what happens or create a new thread.
I thank everyone who has helped answer some of my questions thus far, and I wish you luck with your future endeavors.
I think you need to start pulling this together. Considering the low gpa, a business, coding, and language study are not sufficient to pull you over the hill. The issue now is not what more competitions. Itâs learning about the targetsâ values (which are much more than some mission statement,) lining yourself against that, seeing how you match, and how you might improve your shot. Canât do that without starting with the due diligence. That includes checking where you fall in the stats range of those for admits or freshmen. And itâs what the college says and shows.
By looking to increase your EC involvement, youâre could very well cause the adcoms to further wonder if your priorities are in the right place. You donât seem to be focusing on how you might, armed with better knowledge, be able to create a picture of yourself that softens the reality of the academic performance- how to frame your app to your advantage, investigating whatâs possible. Thatâs not more focus on ECs.
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Itâs never too late for coding competitions like USACO and the like. USACO still has 2 more competitions this year to give you an opportunity to reach Gold level (Bronze â Silver â Gold). In fact, if you studied even only 30 minutes a day give or take, you could reach atleast Silver. Thatâs coming from personal experience, where even though I submitted my apps already(as a senior), I took the USACO Dec 2020 competition and was promoted to Silver. Now Iâm training up for Gold level. Especially since you still have time to reach higher levels and list it on your applications, LoCIs (if deferred), and scholarships, nothing is impossible or too late to do. Good luck!
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Iâm sorry you had a tough time when you were younger. The most important statement in this thread is this one:
whatâs impressive is the kid who endured something and still managed rigor and the grades/scores, including through the crisis. Then, any single freshman problem (say that blasted C grade in some core,) can be put into perspective.
The students in the example above are your competition, and even those types of kids wonât all get in. You had a hard time, and you eventually came through it and have succeeded. You can keep succeeding without going to a top 50 college. If you like, ask a counselor to add info to your letter of rec about your mental health issues, but Iâm not sure I would do that. Mental health issues can make some admissions officers wary. Maybe it shouldnât be that way, but itâs true.
I am not going to encourage you to apply to a bunch of schools you have no chance of getting into. Itâs expensive. Writing good essays takes a LOT of time, time that is better spent doing well in classes or just having fun with friends. Itâs also demoralizing, for some people, to get rejected repeatedly. Maybe apply to a couple, if they are a great fit for you, and if you donât mind spending the cash. Other than that, I suggest you focus on a good school that will enable you to make the most of any opportunities that arise. That doesnât have to be a top 50 school.
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