<p>Several FB friends have been discussing and debating this article:</p>
<p><a href=“The problem with expecting men to pay for the first date”>Jennifer Garner: Young, Gifted And Cracked;
<p>Out of curiosity, what are all of your thoughts?</p>
<p>The PRAGMATIC thing to do is to OFFER to pay. You may not get a second date if you don’t. </p>
<p>I think guys wish it was an outdated custom, but it isn’t. Women want to be treated well. No matter what people will tell you, I say pay for it, pay for it, pay for it. At least try really, really hard. Just grab the check right away, put your credit card down, and keep talking like you didn’t even do it. Be smooth, don’t discuss it, just get it done. If she makes a really big deal about it, don’t argue, but at least pretend really hard like you want to. And I’m not just talking the first date, but as many as until you consider yourselves a couple. Then you can split it, or do it every other time, if she wants. Be conscious if you make more money than her, and keep doing it if you’re in a better financial situation.</p>
<p>Just had my hair done from a hairdresser who talked about how her boyfriend is very cheap and she might break up with him because of this. She’s early twenties. He makes far more than her, has no debt, and will always ask for separate checks. She finds it very tacky, ungenerous, and cheap. She says her other boyfriends have always treated her like a princess.</p>
<p>I have made more money than many dates I’ve had, and I always automatically reached for the check. When they let me…too often, kind of incredibly creepy. Would have been nice if they tried, at least.</p>
<p>If you’re a dude, grab the check. If you’re really broke and she knows it, you might get some slack. Otherwise…</p>
<p>Well, the person who does the asking should probably do the paying. </p>
<p>However, this whole “guy pays” thing is something that we seem to be holding onto as a culture even tho it kind flies in the face of men/women equal. Same with: guys do most of the asking…and guys do most of the proposing (with women waiting for it). </p>
<p>I have to admit, though…I never once paid for a date…nor did I ever call a guy that wasn’t already a boyfriend. </p>
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<p>Maybe it does not really fly in the face of equality, and some actions help us better, as species to continue. </p>
<p>Equality is not identical to being the same, and maybe our innate senses are telling us something, i.e., men and women are different and serve different roles in the makeup up of the planet. </p>
<p>An analogy is a fifty-dollar bill compared to two twenties and a ten. These values are equal and can garner an equal value of things, but they are not same make-up. And for sure one cannot use the fifty in places, which only take twenties and tens. So, I can see men and women as equal, but their make-up and purposes are not the same, and hence, we rightfully (and most likely, instinctually) treat each other differently in certain situations.</p>
<p>Putting equality aside, paying and offering to pay shows the degree of your interest. You can always plan a cheap but romantic date.</p>
<p>But I do think the asker should pay. If girl asked and has romantic intentions, she should pay. </p>
<p>As several people have noted, I also think it’s the one who invites who pays and this is not limited to first dates. If we invite my H’s sister out to dinner to a restaurant we choose, we pay. And the reverse works also. </p>
<p>But in general, from what my D tells me, it’s still the guy who initiates - and buys- in the early stages. After that, from what I can tell, it evens out. But i don’t know if that even split works if one has considerably more resources. </p>
<p>I think that if two struggling students or recent grads held to the rule of “guy pays” for too much longer after the first couple of dates, the woman had better be prepared not to eat out very much! </p>
<p>Maybe the older of the two should pay.</p>
<p>I also think some of this kind of stuff is regional. D2 says her dates have always paid at the outset. Once they have been a couple, some guys will let her chip in, but many of them have seemed uncomfortable with it.</p>
<p>I agree that whoever does the inviting should pay. It’s a “I would like to take you to dinner,” not “let’s eat at the same place tonight” mentality. The invitee is a guest of the inviter.</p>
<p>I’m traditional about these things and I think it means something, even in today’s world. </p>
<p>Neither am I interested in taking advantage or having a relationship that is a one way situation with the guy always paying. Generally, if the relationship became a long term one, the guy always paying became awkward. By that time, instead of him always formally asking me out, it became more about us talking about what we’d like to do together that weekend. Maybe he’d buy movie tickets, I’d make dinner for both of us. Even in a relationship where the guy pays for the dates, it seems over the long run if the relationship progressed, there are ways for it to be more equal. I might buy a small gift if I saw something he liked, get tickets to his favorite band if they were in town, or take him out for a birthday dinner. For any relationship to continue, it has to be reciprocal in many ways. </p>
<p>In high school, a guy I was dating discussed not paying for dates anymore. He wanted things to be more equal, and so, I agreed, being that it was a new era. That actually was the beginning of the end of the relationship- not that he wasn’t paying but that he wasn’t interested and this was his way of showing it. </p>
<p>The fallacy in the idea of the man paying for dates is assuming that if he does, that the relationship isn’t “equal”. Guys now might think this isn’t fair and the woman is taking advantage of them. The woman might think that the guy is going to expect “something” in return, or that it somehow diminishes her to be paid for. However, as the relationship progresses, it should evolve into one where each partner is generous and caring to each other, in many ways, not just during dates. If a guy finds himself paying all the time for everything, and it always feels like a one way relationship- it is- and it should end, </p>
<p>I may be old fashioned but I think if a guy is truly interested in a relationship with a certain woman- he can go ahead and pay for those first few dates, be a gentleman, and see how things go. If things don’t turn out, then he can move on. But if she’s the kind and generous person he hopes she is, then paying for dates is a very small investment for the relationship they might lead to. </p>
<p>I think the guy should pay at least for the first few dates, that’s just part of being a gentleman. Then they can decide if they want to make other arrangements or trade off. </p>
<p>I did ask my H out on our first date and pay for it - but it was to a sorority formal where of course the girl had to do the asking and it was on her dime by definition. A few days later, when it was pretty evident we were interested in one another, he asked me out to a local sweet-shop. I ordered a brownie and milk, and he quickly realized that he didn’t have a lot of money with him, so he ordered the cheapest dessert - and was left with only a nickel - and we still joke about how I "cleaned him of everything but his last nickel"on our second date, haha. </p>
<p>S went to visit his girlfriend at an internship in another city, and I said “I hope you’re paying for dinners, museum tickets, etc.” And he looked at me and said of course, mom. I wouldn’t dream of letting her pay. I think she did pay for maybe a beverage as they were walking around, that type of thing. </p>
<p>Am also a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to this, as I see it as courtesy. Always taught DS’s to pay, regardless of who asked. The worst that could happen is the girl says no, but they still come across as polite and considerate.</p>
<p>I know of a relationship that just ended b/c the female thought the guy was cheap because he let them go dutch. Oh, and she didn’t like his hair :-< </p>
<p>I’m in the camp that if you do the asking you pay or at least pay a few dates. If you really like the girl and expect to see it.</p>
<p>My daughter always offers to split the check but has never been taken up on the offer … at least on a date. If she meets up with a male friend somewhere (not considered a date by either) then it’s separate checks.</p>
<p>Always, if he did the asking. Yes, if she did the asking and he wants another date. ;)</p>
<p>I may be old-fashioned, but I think the person doing the asking, presumably the male, but not necessarily, pays for the date. As the relationship progresses, and the couple become committed to each other, they may choose to split the costs.</p>
<p>In my experience, when the male doesn’t pay, he isn’t committed to the relationship, or worse, using the female.</p>
<p>Sometimes the couple takes turns paying. That seems to be a way to get around each person reaching into their pocket.</p>
<p>I don’t have any justification for thinking the person doing the asking should pay. I also expect my husband to open doors for me, which he always has. This thread has given me something to think about.</p>
<p>Whoever asks should offer to pay. My first date with my spouse, we both paid. Probably not 50-50 because we didn’t have change though, I forget who paid more.</p>
<p>And after our first date, I asked him out same as Pizzagirl, to a formal, so I paid 100% for the pair of tickets except the poor thing had to rent a tux - I thought - what - 10 bucks? I found out it was 80 bucks. Also found out later he was dirt poor 
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<p>My son asked a girl to the prom in the spring, and she was trying to pay for her prom ticket (100 dollars) and he insisted to pay for both with his own money. So the office actually gave him the father’s check! (which he returned to his date) I think if you ask someone to something really expensive, you pay 100%, period. I think that makes it different than agreeing to go to some average cost restaurant or movie.</p>
<p>There is no reason the man should always pay. And there is no reason someone should be regularly going out to dinner and movies and other events, alone or with someone else, if they can’t afford it. Offer to pay, and don’t expect the person to pay even if they did the last 100 times.</p>
<p>I guess I am in the minority, I treat my spouse well and he treats me well. Before we were married, it was the same thing. Every chivalrous act you can think of is distributed equally.</p>
<p>I have held the door for many men, and they are all appreciative. Not one says “But I’m a man! You can’t hold the door for ME!”. Common human decency. If you ask your friend of the same gender out, you offer to pay. You stop asking them out if they don’t offer to split the check or pay instead.</p>
<p>I agree that paying for dates is a very small investment.</p>
<p>Not sure how DS handles this. We do not “teach” him this. But we also have never “complained” when he spends money on dating. Only heard that he paid for the meal and then the girl paid for the ice cream later on one of their first few dates.</p>
<p>Even though both of them have not made any money, the girl seems to have more pocket money from her parents than DS. I guess this may be the reason why he did not “dare” to date her at the beginning.</p>
<p>I do not know how a couple handle this situation when the girl has more money to spend. I am not talking about the first 4 or 5 dates here.</p>
<p>One of his friends dated a girl a few years ago. The girlfriend had started to work but he had not. He told DS that he “hates” days like Valentine or birthday or anniversary because it is time when he is expected to spend money on her. He seems to be quite “careful” about spending money - kind of borderline cheap. But I heard it is likely because he grew up from a family with a modest mean (both of his parents do not make much money and likely live in some not so wealthy neighborhood, maybe even closer to inner city.) I always believe that if the guy and the girl come from families belonging to very different SES classes, they may likely run into more troubles - at least may have more challenges. Also, the D of one of our friends used to date a guy (still a student) who always took her to some cheap places. She hates it. Not sure whether they break up.</p>
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In my experience, when the male doesn’t pay, he isn’t committed to the relationship, or worse, using the female.</p>
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<p>there probably is some truth to this unless they are both starving students or something. That said, I don’t like this habit of “just hanging out”. Even if money is an issue…go to a free museum or something. Just hanging out seems like a daytime bootie call.</p>
<p>Sometimes, the issue is not that the male is not willing to pay. It is how much he ends up paying. Not only what kind of restaurants they choose to go, but also what they order at the restaurant. One person may expect a full meal, including appetizer, drinks, and dessert but the other person is not willing to do so or is not capable of doing so.</p>
<p>In college, the way DS’s suitmates spend money could be very different. Some of them would not think twice about ordering the most expensive entries and a bottle of expensive wine - this is just how they were brought up. After a year or two, those from expensive prep high schools rarely go out with those from the public high school.</p>