My good friend was a firefighter. She was able to beat over 75% of the men in the physical tests even when she was about to retire. She would talk about vaulting over a fence with all her gear on to race to a structure fire. She rocks. So yes, women CAN be firefighters, but I agree they should be held to the same physical standards as the men.
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This is worth your time. Youâd never know she was the âAngel of Deathâ if you came across her in the civilian world. This woman was, and is buttoned up.
Pay particular attention starting at the 25:17 mark, and again at 28:40. 
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Interestingly, during marksmanship instruction in my Marine OCS class, the women performed better than the men. I think it was because they had better focus, and they accepted criticism and instruction better.
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I agree with you. The problem is when standards are lowered to meet some social engineering goal. There were many reports by instructors at the armyâs Ranger school that physical training standards were lowered so that the brass could report that some women passed the punishing course. There were similar reports, albeit not as many, when the first woman passed the demanding Marine Infantry Officer Course (I can attest, it was a bear).
These reports jibe with womenâs performance in my Marine OCS class. We performed multiple forced marches (humps) carrying combat loads of around 70 lbs ranging from 10 to 25 miles, at a pace just short of a run (4mph). In the male platoons we would typically lose one, maybe two guys on the longer humps. A third of the women dropped on the first hump and half dropped out of the longest hump. In fact, the training officer arranged for a truck to follow the women and collect the âhump dropsâ. Moreover, the women were excused from training with light-duty chits at a far higher rate than the men with ailments like stress fractures.
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College certainly is a place where a lot of young women are sexually assaulted. But itâs important to keep in mind that women in college are sexually assaulted LESS often (about 20% less often) than aged-matched women who do not attend college.
The ages 18-24 are a particularly common time for women to be sexually assaulted. The frequency of sexual assault drops significantly after this age.
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Does that hold true for women in the trades, military and law enforcement? The thread shift to sexual assault probably deserves its own thread.
Hard to know, because the comparisons are apples and oranges. About 8% of active duty military women report âunwanted sexual contactâ in the last year. This is in comparison with female students, some 26% of whom report unwanted sexual contact over the entire 4 years of undergrad. Most of active duty military women will probably be in the 18-24 age group, although not all. Same with undergrads.
And as alluded to above, comparing groups can be complicated by whether the group has a living component or is only a job. Going to college (at least if you live on campus) has a living/social component. So does being in the military. But with the trades and police work, it is only a job, you donât live your home life where you work. In other words, college and the military are more 24/7, while the trades and police work are more ~40 hrs/wk and then you go home.
âLaShawnna Edwards made history as the first female SWAT officer for the Palm Beach County (Fla.) Sheriffâs Office, earning her spot on the elite team in 2016 after rigorous training and tryouts.â
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Hereâs a woman on the gang unit.
In contrast to PR anecdotal evidence hereâs some data (rounded because there is some variation in sources). Women make up 20% of Armed Forces; 14% of law enforcement; 8% of firefighters; 5% of the trades (welding, plumbing, hvac, electrical, carpentry, etc.). Should we encourage young women with interest and aptitude? For sure. Should they be aware that they may run into a culture that will not be accepting or supportive? Definitely. Would it be better if people treated one another at work with respect regardless of gender? Absolutely.
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I couldnât find statistics as far as the Coast Guard, so I was just taking a guess. However, a scandal involving the commandant of the Coast Guard Academy does not mean that there is a greater problem in that branch of service more so than any other, it just means a serious problem at one place.
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Unwanted sexual contact spans quite a large gap between getting drunk and not remembering or being aware of what youâre doing, and getting raped at knife point when you are not incapacitated. I realize that nobody wants to break things down into that, but there is a huge difference. I donât think itâs even worth comparing situations.
If I had a daughter, I would lecture her endlessly (as long as she would listen to me) to try to prevent these situations as much as possible.
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Tons of female Wildland firefighters. A former hotshot told me that women firefighters often have more stamina than men when building fire lines. Probably due to more body fat.
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Interesting. Celebrating women in male dominated fields is âanecdotal evidence,â and âPR?â
Are people warning their daughters about a âculture that will not be accepting or supportiveâ in STEM, where men outnumber women 65% to 35%? Are they being warned about finance, where theyâre welcome at entry level positions, but not so welcome in senior management/C-suite positions? I hope parents are having these discussions before they send their daughters off to T20s.
I agree with this 100%
Letâs be honest, the vast majority of parents that participate on CC would rather their daughters not go into the trades, or the military, etc. That doesnât mean the stories shared here should be written off as anecdotal, any more than a woman becoming the president of a Fortune 500 company should(currently 10.4% female).
We didnât want our son to go into the military.
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GKUnion, I would want my sons or daughters to go to college even if they were to ultimately choose a career you suggest. I value college for more than job training.
Going into police work doesnât protect females from sexual harassment or assault.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/10986111211058032
It should be expected that people using a website designed for helping people with their college search and selection would feel this way for both sons and daughters. College typically leads to a safer, more secure lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with the jobs you suggest for females, but they can be difficult, especially when children arrive.
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Last thing I would do is to âwarnâ a young woman about going into a male dominated field, do they really need more barriers to entry? Itâs going to be hard, not many women do this, you might get sexually assaulted, women arenât as capable as menâŠâŠthose are things I would never say, I would tell them that if you want to do it, go for it, you can do anything you want.
I am so fortunate that my dad was a feminist, and I heard none of those mantras, I was so ignorant. I started out being in a minority of around 1% women in a completely male dominated field back in the dark ages, which slowly rose to around 5% by the time I retired. But I see more women out there flying now, and it warms my heart. Maybe even the garbage about being less qualified because theyâre female will go out the window, as more women do the job and are normalized.
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Unwanted sexual contact spans quite a large gap between getting drunk and not remembering or being aware of what youâre doing, and getting raped at knife point when you are not incapacitated. I realize that nobody wants to break things down into that, but there is a huge difference. I donât think itâs even worth comparing situations.
No difference in my eyes someone is still breaking the law and should be punished. Really the only difference I see if someone takes advantage of someone that is drunk then they know in the back of their mind they will have a good shot of getting away with it by blaming the victim.
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Any job can be difficult when children arrive.
Before I went back to school and became a CPA I worked in a female dominated allied healthcare career. Low pay, zero status, high pressure and lousy hours - at least that was my experience. Ironically, I had been told it was a good job for a woman. Oh and all of our management were men.
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No difference, really? Iâll give you a couple of different scenarios that Iâm familiar with. Once, I stayed in a hotel room with a friend and a guy she liked, as there were two beds. We were all rather drunk. Later that night, I heard some quiet rustling around in the other bed, realized they were having sex, so I turned away embarrassed, and ignored it. Not a word was said, and they were obviously trying to be quiet. Months later, she claimed to me that he had raped her that night. What a bunch of BS, she was just embarrassed that I was in the room, and probably felt pressured into having sex.
Second situation. A friendâs cousin in Salt Lake City had a stranger break into her house when she was alone. He raped her violently at knife point. Feeling certain that he was going to kill her, she flung herself through the living room window, shattering the glass to escape.
No difference in your eyes? I see the first situation as a lack of judgement and later regret, and the second situation as a 20 year prison sentence.