<p>My opinion - no (both AP and SAT II). The defintion of native speaker is pretty straightforward. Why not? Native speakers are exposed to their language constantly from an early age. Chances are both of the parents are native speakers. The child listens to the parents, responds. Watches television in the native language. Listens to the radio. Talks to relatives. Writes thank you letters to relatives in native language. Goes to restaurants and orders in native language. Why should a child who has been completely immersed in a language since he/she could remember be allowed to take a test that is directed toward those who have learned in school? You may say, “Oh, well some kids are taught by their parents in advanced math/science/some other subject from an early age, and they can still take the AP for that.” Yes, but chances are the kid does not babble on with his parents about science 24/7, nor does he include mathematical formulas in all that he writes. A kid doesn’t have to think to himself, “Oh, I have to speak to my parents in spanish/Pues, tengo que hablar con mis padres en espa~nol.” Speaking, listening, writing in a native language come naturally and easily after 15, 16, or 17 years of immersion. Total immersion for that period is not something all of language APers have access to. With a LOT less work, native language speakers can take an AP/SAT II and ruin the curve for someone else (e.g. I believe one guy said he took SAT chinese, got like a 700 which was 10th percentile). If I was an admissions officer and I saw some kid whose race was Chinese, with a Chinese last name, got an 800 on chinese SAT II, I would act as if that AP wasn’t even on the app. Yes, it’s not fair to assume that all those who mark Chinese as race speak fluent chinese, but when has the admissions process ever been completely objective? The answer is never. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>I don’t see why not. Should a math genius not be allowed to take AP Calculus because it’s trivially easy to them? Should someone who’s father is a chemist not be allowed to take AP Chemistry? If you can get an easy grade, then you should be allowed to take advantage.</p>
<p>Of course, it is the only way to prove that you really know the language. Anyone can say I am a native.</p>
<p>If native speakers weren’t allowed to take the test of their language then that would mean Americans couldn’t take AP English Language or AP English Literature.</p>
<p>Simply because you can speak the language natively doesn’t mean you’ll pass the exam. Why? Because language encompasses much more than speaking, and the exam tests this – all four modes of language. So, sure, the student can speak and listen, but can they also read and write? Even more important than that is critical thinking. The exam’s questions are designed to force the students to soak up the language, analyze it, form a response, and articulate that response.</p>
<p>Case in point: in my AP Spanish class, only 5 people didn’t pass. 4 of them were native speakers.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Um, no. In fact, writing was the hardest part for all the native speakers in my class. And that’s in a language that uses the same script as English (+ has accents). Imagine having to learn to write Japanese, where you’d have to learn the hundreds of characters of kana and all or most of JLPT kanji (thousands), which have all these different radicals and stroke orders and each has an individual meaning (and it doesn’t tell you how to pronounce it). And listening/speaking aren’t so easy, either, because the exam is meant to be challenging in that it requires critical thinking, even in those exercises.</p>
<p>Some interesting points. </p>
<p>For one thing, how many math geniuses are there in the world? How many kids have fathers who are scientists? A true minority. See [Childstats.gov</a> - America’s Children: Key National Indicators of Well-Being 2007 - Language Spoken at Home and Difficulty Speaking English](<a href=“http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/famsoc5.asp]Childstats.gov”>http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/famsoc5.asp) 1/5 of America’s children speak a native language at home, so statistically a lot more kids have an advantage in a language than anything else.</p>
<p>Time in AP English is not spent learning the English language. Also, remember that AP tests were designed for high school students in the US and Canada, so the collegeboard would assume most of those kids spoke fluent English.</p>
<p>The fact that 4 native speakers in your class didn’t pass the AP test is likely indicative of their overconfidence in their ability to speak/write/listen. The kids who are not as sure in their ability to perform in a non-native language will compensate by studying harder.</p>
<p>I am always curious about why a native speaker would take the SAT 2 language test. Anything short of an 800 starts to make one question the true bilinguality of the student. On the other hand, how impressive is a score of 800 by a native speaker? What’s the point? I mean look at the curve on the Chinese test.</p>
<p>What about natives of english-speaking countries. No AP English Literature or Language?</p>
<p>The foreign language APs are hardly on the level of AP English Literature or Language.
Good luck trying to get a 5 on the equivalent of that in a language you studied in high school.</p>
<p>
Couldn’t have said it better.</p>
<p>Why not? Makes as much sense as SAT CR and Writing, which are in writing. So are you saying that native students shouldn’t take AP English exams?</p>
<p>The English Language and Literature Exams are designed to be a challenge for NATIVE speakers of English.</p>
<p>AP Foreign Language tests are designed for students who have acquired the second language through study…it’s not nearly on the same level!</p>
<p>I would laugh hysterically if someone administered an AP English Language exam with a 10 minute informal section that had a prompt like "You’re on a trip to New York City. Write about this trip to a friend back in (fill in whatever country you like). Make sure to include such things as:</p>
<ul>
<li>Who you’re with</li>
<li>What you’ve done</li>
<li>Your desire to see your friend again</li>
<li>etc. etc.</li>
</ul>
<p>It’s laughable for anyone to compare the AP English Language exam (which is, again, designed to be a true challenge for NATIVE English speakers) and say that it’s on the same challenge level as an AP Foreign Language exam.</p>
<p>(By the way, the prompt above is the EXACT type of question given on the AP Spanish Language exam!! It’s THAT basic!)</p>
<p>Although as an aside I’m not sure how the level of difficulty compares between the AP English Lit Exam and Foreign Language Lit exams. Perhaps those are more comparable, but CERTAINLY not the Language exams.</p>
<p>No, so I don’t think already fluent speakers of Spanish, French, Japanese, Italian, German, etc. should be allowed to take the AP test of their given fluent language. This completely rapes the curve for those students who acquire the language through hard work, perseverance, and STUDY.</p>
<p>Well I think the point some people are making is that although you are allowed to take the AP English Language Test it is not a test of the English Language, but rather is a test of reading comprehension far beyond the level of a Spanish or French Literature Test. If you think about it, the top 10% of people who take spanish for 5 years should technically get 5’s on the AP Spanish Test, but in English you have 17 or 18 years to practice the language so Collegeboard is not dumb.</p>
<p>I think the AP English tests are ok for anyone. But foreign language should mainly be for those who are studying it in school. Native Speakers take away from the curve. They harm others who are taking the test.</p>
<p>I’m a native speaker of Chinese, but there is NO WAY I’m going to get a 5 with my current state. I’m just not a good speaker and I can barely read and write.</p>
<p>More than 90% of them got 5, LOL!</p>
<p>op is jealous because he only knows english.</p>
<p>Actually I’m coming along nicely in Spanish. Nowhere near fluent, but I can hold a basic conversation. I’m just speaking for all of us who had to learn a language in a classroom rather than in the real world.</p>
<p>I feel the matter is simple: a test is designed to asses the knowledge of the taker. If the test taker has a bunch of knowledge, s/he will do well. I don’t understand why you’d prohibit a certain profile from taking an exam, and I don’t quite envision how it would be done. What is the definition of a native speaker? My family and I immigrated to the US when I was 2.25 years old, yet I speak my first language everyday with my family, but have little to none exposure to the language otherwise. Would I be permitted to take the exam in the foreign language, or is that too native?</p>
<p>The main problem is that it messes up the curve for those who aren’t native speakers.</p>
<p>If you grew up speaking another language at home, don’t use it to pad your test scores or GPA by claiming it as a foreign language. Embrace your bilingual background, and learn another language. Just mention on the apps that you are fluent in your native language and English. Then take a test in a foreign language that you learned in high school.</p>