Should S go into debt for opportunity?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Were pretty plain folk and have subscribed to the theory of best education at best price with least amount of debt. </p>

<p>My son had decided he would not go into huge debt to attend a private college but he has been offered admittance to a special program (limited to 10 students) that includes research opportunities, having a mentor and two summers of funded research (good stipend) with an adviser, and enrollment in honors and graduate level courses, where available. Possible co authoring of research paper. After a merit scholarship coa is $28,000. We hope to pay $10,000 a year.</p>

<p>Is it worth it for my son to go into debt of $15,000 + per year
for this type of opportunity?</p>

2

<p>Wouldn’t it ddepend it part on what S will do afterwards? Will S work in college and summers to pay for part of gap? Answer here should be a resounding affirmative.
Will special program help S start a higher paying job after college so he can retire loans sooner? Some debt is OK and may give S financial motivation with regard to college. Do you qualify for subsidized loans? Those are a very good deal for financing education.
Can’t give you advice without more info though.</p>

3

<p>What are his other options?</p>

<p>Seems to me that if he’s being offered so much at the one school, he could get similar opportunities at others. For instance, virtually all universities and colleges have research opportunities (including paid research opps and opps to get professional publications) for top students. The students just have to excel in classes and get to know professors. </p>

<p>I truly doubt that it would be a good move for him to take out $15 k a year in loans. I think he could get similar opportunities at other colleges even if they aren’t offering them to him now. </p>

<p>S, a freshman, has been offered a research opp with a top professor in the field he plans to major in. I think he has gotten this offer because the prof has noticed S’s hard work, interest and talent. This is a typical experience of students who work hard in class, get a reputation on campus for being serious, smart students, demonstrate interest in the material covered, and get to know the professors. </p>

<p>My perspective comes from being a former college prof who also is married to a prof.</p>

4

<p>What’s the field? How attractive will his options be coming out of the special program vs. just being a regular Joe? What is the track record of the other students in this program in terms of grad school and job placement?</p>

<p>$60K in loans is what some folks do for a fancy car- a rapidly depreciating asset. A 60K investment in one’s future doesn’t sound crippling to me if the opportunities he’d have coming out of the program are exceptional. If the opportunities are only marginally better then you need to do some thinking. If he’s planning on professional school (med, law, business) where he’ll add more debt to the 60K then some bells will go off.</p>

<p>What are his other options?</p>

5

<p>I’d be tempted to fully explore all the other options available first. Although a different school might not have a ‘special program’ I’d guess that a determined student could still seek out the same benefits without having them specially arranged as part of a program. $15k per year of debt (so 60k or so by graduation not including interest) is quite a lot to enter the ‘real world’ with… especially depending on what comes after college career and financial wise.</p>

6

<p>For some kids getting personal attention and special opportunities can make all the difference.</p>

<p>Others are more of a go-getters, and will seek those opportunities on their own.</p>

<p>A lot depends on what the specific school/program is, and what the alternatives are. I agree with blossom that 60K can be a worthwhile investment in one’s future…</p>

7

<p>Not to state the obvious but of course the principal might start out at 60k but the actual cost is much higher. An average 60k loan paid out over 10 years actually costs 83k… and that’s with monthly payments of $690 (likely too high for someone just starting out). Taken out over a more reasonable 20 years that 60k actually costs 110k with monthly payments of $460. </p>

<p>So just don’t forget to factor in the true cost of those loans when putting everything on the table for consideration.</p>

8

<p>Rocketman, do you use a table with actual cost of a loan and monthly payments, or how do you compute this? Thanks.</p>

9

<p>

</p>

<p>There are a variety of tools and calculators to play around with but the one I used is linked below. One factor to consider (which isn’t the case with a non-education loan) is the fact that payments might only start after one graduates BUT interest is still due and just added to account. This effect alone would add about 10k to the overall loan amount over 4 years of college (assuming the 15k loan per year with 6% interest) so it’s best to start making payments right away if possible. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml[/url]”>http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

10

<p>Thanks for all the feedback. </p>

<p>Son’s field he would like to go into is software engineering - the university that made him the offer, Brandeis University, has a 5 year masters program in computer science. Presently his plans would be to get a masters degree right out of college . . . unless he incurrs this level of debt, then he wouldn’t be able to. </p>

<p>My son has contacted them about additional aid thru email . . . He has pretty good stats . . . better than anyone whose posted on CC who has gotten full ride or full tuition from Brandeis, 4.0 gpa, 34 act, 2350 SAT, 4.0, salutorian at his school, 2 ap tests scores of 5 on both, taking 4 ap classes this year plus quite a few honors classes, student of the month x 2 in highschool, x 2 in middle school. Son is shy and introverted but has come off well in most interviews from feedback from admission counselors. </p>

<p>His EC’s are not that good compared to most cc kids . . . but that is because he was overweight and would sit and read a book by himself at recess in middle school as he had no friends. Son always liked sports, but not coordinated, first day of football in middle school, broke his growth plate in his foot. He stopped playing sports until tried wrestling a few years later, this lead to being in a back brace for almost a year and continued monitoring of his spine. He became involved in high quiz bowl this year and loves it, says one of his greatest regrets is not becoming involved in activities but he had to work through his weight issue and learn to love himself before he was able to be comfortable joining in.</p>

<p>Son’s day care provider always said son would not have many friends, but a few good ones. Unfortunately, these friends kept moving away and son decided not to make new friends. In high school he walked 2 + miles every night after school to a gym and worked out. He has lost and maintained the loss of 65 pounds. He was elected homecoming king this past fall because “he talks to everyone and is nice to everyone”. Voted best lineman of the year and player of the year in football and he writes articles for the local newspaper - the first one talked about being suicidal in middle school and high school and remembering the feelings of being called fat, etc. He REALLY exposed all of his feelings about himself at that time in his life. His second article was on racism in the school. (He’s caucasion)</p>

<p>My take is that he has not lead by being in clubs, etc but has lead by example. He is an Eagle Scout and has been very involved in Order of the Arrow. </p>

<p>Son has worked each evening after school so has not been able to do a personal call. Son does work part time during school year and full time during summer. Saves all $ for college - so will be able to pay a few thousand each year for school, but will not make $ the summers he would take advantage of the summer research option. </p>

<p>He has applied for many scholarships, receiving the Byrd (if it’s funded) and has a local Elk’s scholarship (amount unkown) but did not make it beyond the state level. Last night he finished applying for 30 scholarships through his school . . . they don’t say the amounts, but I’m thinking there minimal, maybe $500 . . . but every bit helps. No $ will be coming from relatives to assist. His father is having a bird that he’s thinking about taking on this debt.</p>

<p>Part of the issue is fit . . . Brandeis is pretty good for him. He does not drink, do drugs, enjoys small get togethers, but academics come number one. He had a scholarhship to a summer writing program at Carleton this past summer, for the first time in his life he felt like he belonged to a group. He cried when we left.</p>

<p>He has a tuition scholarship to Truman State University in Missouri - this was the closest fit for a financial safety we could find for him. It would be ok, but it certainly does not fit him like Brandeis does.</p>

<p>Were pretty conservative financially, and I’m pretty naive about this stuff . . . but I’m thinking the risk of big debt might be worth it??</p>

<p>He applied to 10 schools, still to hear back from a couple, but I’m not expecting anything much. One college told him he wouldn’t get a full ride, but quite possibly tuition - the offer was not even close to that. </p>

<p>We spent hundreds of hours researching schools, finding the right fit, looking for scholarships . . . not sure what happened and why he’s not getting the offers. Part of it may be that he wanted a small college and the $ seems to be at the larger institutions. I suggested Americorps or something similar for a year and then reapplying or applying to the schools with the new guidelines - Stanford, Harvard, etc, but the school’s are not the best fit for him.</p>

11

<p>"My take is that he has not lead by being in clubs, etc but has lead by example. He is an Eagle Scout and has been very involved in Order of the Arrow. </p>

<p>Son has worked each evening after school "</p>

<p>His ECs (and I’m including his work as part of ECs) are far above those of most students in the country, including most posters on CC.</p>

<p>He sounds like a very talented, focused, self disciplined person, and I think that he would be able to get the same benefits that Brandeis is offering him at other schools by simply following his bliss, getting to know professors and keeping an eye out for opportunities (such as those posted on college bulletin boards).</p>

<p>I can’t think of any reason for him to take out such big loans for Brandeis’ otherwise nice offer.</p>

12

<p>Definitely compare to other schools. Some schools will have similar opportunities for all students wishing them. Here’s another factor- what if he changes his mind about the specific major? When he is in college he may discover other areas not covered by this program- then what? Your son sounds like a well adjusted introvert, not everyone needs tons of friends (you may want to read about introversion/extroversion to get a handle on it). There is a surplus of excellent students, not enough room at any one college nor enough money to give all what they deserve. There is also more than one school that can give good preparation for his interests. Recheck all the advantages of his other choices before deciding- then decide if the price tag is worth it. Good luck.</p>

13

<p>Unless there’s something super special about the Computer Science program at Brandeis, I can’t imagine it’s worth going in to big debt. Computer Science is available at most schools and for undergrad, the student will get good experience at most places.</p>

<p>DO ask at all the possible schools about research and other practical experience offered to undergrads, WHEN it’s available (do they have to wait until junior or senior year?), AND their placement record for grad schools and jobs.</p>

<p>THEN compare apples to apples and the cost of those apples at each place. AND do consider other factors that are important to your son including gut feel - how happy will he be at Place A vs. Place B??</p>

<p>Good luck!!!</p>

14

<p>I’m a bit of a fan of Truman State University for a lot of kids–but <em>maybe</em> not for software engineering. It has reformulated itself as a public LAC, and while it has retained a few ag-related and equine programs, most MO residents looking at public schools and interested in engineering fields would head for MU (either Columbia or Rolla campus). On the other hand, it has a nice, medium sized feel about it, and its students usually are very happy with the school. I guess I’m going to be wishy-washy on the subject–sorry.</p>

<p>Don’t make any decisions until you get all the offers in. Software engineering is a good field, but I also am reluctant to advise students to take on significant debt.</p>

<p>I agree with Northstarmom that smart, directed, hard-working kids make their own opportunities once they land on campus. I’ve seen it with my own kid, and like NSM, I am married to a prof, and I see it all the time with other people’s kids. Research jobs, internships, etc. are available at a lot of institutions for the right kids. Ask a lot of questions, along the lines of those suggested by Inthebiz.</p>

15

<p>What other schools did he apply to?
Did he apply to Carleton?
Did he apply to any Southern or Texas LACS? - COA is less there and merit money is sometimes more available.
A medium-sized public LAC as Midmo describes Truman State, might be a really good choice for him, since he seems to really like the LAC environment. Software engineering and small schools tend to NOT go together, so he might have to do that later??</p>

16

<p>“After a merit scholarship coa is $28,000. We hope to pay $10,000 a year.”</p>

<p>Since you indicated that it is a merit scholarship, I would presume that you do not qualify for any “need-based FA”. In that case, perhaps you would consider raising your support for your son. It is a pretty unique program.</p>

17

<p>If he went to Truman for a couple of years and found it lacking, he could transfer elsewhere. That would give your family two additional years of savings and only two years of expensive college costs.</p>

18

<p>I guess I am in the minority here, but IMHO for a kid like your son a good fit can make all the difference in the world. He deserves to finally be able to feel that “he belonged to a group”. This is much more likely to happen at Brandeis than at Truman State (which is a good school, btw.)</p>

<p>He has had a lot of issues, and was able to work through them and come on top. As a software engineer, he will have no problem getting a well-paid job. Many companies will pay for his studies for masters degree that he can often pursue while working full time (my son is doing just that at Stanford now).</p>

<p>The program you described sounds very unique. And although he may find a cheaper way to get good enough education, he may not have the “college experience” he really deserves.</p>

19

<p>Your S has very good stats, including ECs (the Eagle is a pretty big one) and it seems that he’d get some pretty good offers from other schools as well. It’s worth seeing what other schools come through with and make sure he’s applied (if not too late) to schools likely to give awards. I don’t know about your state but several of the UCs also have 5 year master’s programs in computer science so it’s not unique to Brandeis.</p>

<p>$75K or more of debt (assuming 15K x 5 years) is a lot to take on for a recent college grad and is best avoided. OTOH, he should expect to earn roughly $60-80K right out of school (in today’s dollars) as a software engineer. I’m sure he’s good at math so it might be interesting for him to sit down with a spreadsheet and see what impact $75k of debt versus that level of income means.</p>

20

<p>I think your kid sounds fantastic. Most of the kids we know at Brandeis are very happy there-- good size for a kid who has had trouble connecting socially, lots of opportunity for community service in Boston and surrounding towns, administration seems on top of their game with some stellar faculty and resources.</p>

<p>If it were me I would wait. I wouldn’t make a Truman/Brandeis decision without fully evaluating all the other options on the table. I would also try to help your son sort out Brandeis vs. this special opportunity. He could go there and fall in love with linguistics or urban planning or political philosophy… and then what? Or decide he doesn’t want to stay for the Master’s year? </p>

<p>I think it’s worth having your son contact the school to ask to speak to a senior now doing this program. Have him get a sense of the professional opportunities, networking connections, etc. before he needs to make a decision. My son entered MIT all excited about the 5 year Master’s degree option; by junior year it was off the table and he was all excited about something else. That’s what’s so nice about college-- but your son should have a realistic sense of what the program offers (upsides and downsides) before making a decision.</p>

<p>And I would seriously entertain the level of debt you’re talking about if I had a kid like yours-- the perserverance, focus, work ethic, etc. that your son has demonstrated all bodes well for him professionally.</p>