<p>I believe your s should go for it if he can afford to pay this debt off once he graduates. How much money can your S make afterwards? My brother and sister-in-law have morgage size loans for medical school. They are still paying it off. Luckily, my brother is doing research for the NIH and gets his loans paid off by the govt. I tend to be very practical in this sort of thing.</p>
<p>Not, it’s not nearly worth it, if he has to shoulder the debt himself.</p>
<p>I surfed around Brandeis’ web site for comp sci, and didn’t see any mention of a program as described by the OP.<br>
Like an earlier poster, what other schools has he applied to?</p>
<p>Not sure if this was brought up, but also remember that tuition goes up each year, so it may end up being more than 60k.</p>
<p>We are in a similar boat financially as the OP, but we have been able to pay our EFC without taking on debt. I know when DD went off to college I wasn’t sure how we could handle it because I hadn’t analyzed our income/outgoing money. And if you had asked me how much we could have afforded to pay for her, I would also have said $10,000 a year - but we’ve been able to cough up a lot more without too much difficulty. I wonder if the same will hold true for you. If you earn $100,000 a year and have no financial need, it seems that you might be able to increase how much aid you give your son? You will save food, electricity, hot water, etc. costs with him away. (30 weeks x $70 week = $2100), plus other costs for any EC’s, summer programs, etc. (in our case, about another $1000) Your son’s contribution from assets is dunned at a higher rate than your assets. If he spends his bank account down the first year, he will have only current income to assess in next year’s FA package and your total family contribution may be lower and then you may qualify for some need-based financial aid. $28000 a year minus money that he makes working on campus ($2000 a year) minus summer money he earns (minimally $3000, more likely $4000 if he has good research job) is $22,000. If you can pay more, he may not need huge loans. Then again, it’s your wallet and a little presumptuous of me to suggest otherwise, but I do think you will find that you can afford more than you think.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for suggestions. I have been trying to figure such finances . . . second son in college in two years, so less EFC, tapping retirement, stop putting into retirement. But some new ideas to factor in. Was never sure about what amount we’d save by son being away at college. Thanks for the figures! On another post a suggestion was RA, which I did look at - couldn’t find what the reimbursement is - room? room and board? Will need to research more. He’s not eligible to look for campus job until October - work study students get first priority.</p>
<p>The program he has invited to enroll is not just for computer science but for other sciences also - it’s called the Brandeis Science Scholars Program. He would maintain the $25,000 scholarship if he decided to change majors.</p>
<p>He has applied to Carleton, Macalester, Lawrence University, Knox, Kenyon, Hamilton, Reed, Wooster, Case, Truman and Brandeis. Accepted at all except Hamilton and Reed which he has not heard back from. There must be a reason why . . . I do not believe he spoke to his lack of EC’s enough.</p>
<p>We found what he wanted in a college was very hard to find that offered good scholarships. Kept hoping for “if colleges want him, they will offer him merit.” Not one college who does merit offered him their top amount. (We had also hoped for combination scholarships - but that definately didn’t pan out.) Two colleges left do not offer merit . . . so really not much hope. A couple of colleges came back with lower out of pocket cost after merit, etc than Brandeis ($20,000 was the lowest), but their programs are not a better enough fit for him to incur that amount of debt vs going to Truman. Unfortunately, I did not do a good enough job advising him despite hundreds of hours of research, etc.</p>
<p>He heard back from Brandeis . . . no go on additional scholarship money.</p>
<p>I have been trying to figure out . . . can I take money out of retirement and borrow to him as he has asked. (Dad said absolutely NOT.) Can I stop putting money into retirement (which is where our excess $ goes.) I’m 50 with health problems and not sure I can work until age 67. But health problems have not caused us loss of $ so couldn’t put that down as reason for lower EFC. Had low paying jobs with no retirement until 2002 so was not able to put away much for retirement. I work for county Human Services - our yearly cost of living increase is 1.5% to 4% max. (May have seen 4% once!) Husband works for city government so he does not see much of a cost of living increase, either. Husband already works a part time job in addition to his full time job.</p>
<p>I don’t know . . . he deserves this opportunity . . . he worked extremely hard for it . . . I’m torn between stopping putting $ into retirement and helping him as much as I can and advising him to go to Truman and not go into debt. </p>
<p>It will ultimately be his decision . . . but I will probably offer to stop putting $ into retirement so he can incur less debt . . . and hope he can help support me in my old age. Still need to crunch a few numbers to have all information available to make a decision. </p>
<p>Your input and support has been invaluable. I thank you.</p>
<p>Everything I’ve ever read says - don’t jeopardize your retirement nest-egg for college tuition - especially when viable alternatives exist. Make sure you distinguish between ‘wants’ and ‘needs’ on this decision.</p>
<p>Has he considered U of Wisc? Might they offer a decent package for your S? UW-Madison has a top ranked engineering and Computer engineering program.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/382751-usnews-2008-engineering-ranking-compilation.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/382751-usnews-2008-engineering-ranking-compilation.html</a></p>
<p>The amount of debt sounds large to me. We might be going into a recession and if you have health problems and your hubby is already working overtime–I think your incredible son can get great opportunities without so much debt.</p>
<p>If he goes into CS and does well, he will be able to pay back his loans. You should not take money from your retirement fund for this.</p>
<p>RA usually covers at least the housing, but there are no freshmen RAs… There’s also usually some competition for this position, so he can’t count on getting it. But based on what you wrote about him, he’d be a good RA…</p>
<p>Does Brandeis participate in National Merit program?</p>
<p>I was wondering about Univ. Wisconsin myself. However, it is a huge school, and perhaps this student does not feel he would fit in?</p>
<p>kimfred, you should not be beating yourself up about your advising. Large merit scholarships are very tricky creatures. My impression is that great stats, as your son has, are usually not enough to land the big ones. Often the committees are looking for proven ability to take charge, take initiative, lead groups, bring a gung-ho type of attitude to the campus. Really quiet people are often at a disadvantage in this quest–although your son is hardly without extracurricular activities. (I’m no expert on this issue, but this is based on what I witnessed with my son and his friends.) </p>
<p>I am wondering about the distance from home issue. Getting to Boston from Wisconsin is probably going to be expensive and time-consuming. Considering your financial concerns, is that going to be a big negative? How does he plan to get to Truman State? Will he be driving himself to Kirksville if that is where he decides to go?</p>
<p>I’m still leery about the debt associated with Brandeis, especially given that it does not sound like your family has a lot of room for economizing. I don’t think you should raid the retirement fund.</p>
<p>You made a comment about relying on your son in your old age if you use up your retirement funds. Please consider rethinking that line of thought. It seems to me that a promise like that on his part could lead to trouble down the road if he marries someone who doesn’t wish to fulfill that promise.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son with this decision.</p>
<p>“kimfred, you should not be beating yourself up about your advising. Large merit scholarships are very tricky creatures. My impression is that great stats, as your son has, are usually not enough to land the big ones. Often the committees are looking for proven ability to take charge, take initiative, lead groups, bring a gung-ho type of attitude to the campus.”</p>
<p>The college also can be looking to attract people from different regions, racial groups, majors, etc. You can’t assume that spectacular stats are all that’s needed. Colleges use merit aid to attract students who they want who might go elsewhere, and only the admissions office knows what kind of students are particularly desired that year.</p>
<p>You people are all so nice!!!</p>
<p>U of WI - too big for son, party school, he’s heard lots of negatives about it from students who went there. We also looked at honors programs within larger colleges . . . but he just wanted to stay away from the frat/party/jock scene. </p>
<p>Transportation to Boston will be expensive - we live in a smaller city and airfare would be $500 RT if we had a good deal, not sure how expensive one way would be. Not sure if he could get there by amtrak . . . haven’t checked the connections yet. On the to do list. Not sure why Brandeis has turned into THE SCHOOL. It is the only one we have approached and probably will approach to ask to look at his aid. (Edit : sorry, I lied. Son did approach Truman, indicating he had hoped for the Pershing Scholarship . . . they upped his scholarship by about $1500.)</p>
<p>Transportation to Truman would be an issue also. Our kids do not have their own cars. Oldest son believes their too much $, youngest is working hard on having enough $ to buy one! On Amtrak he would need to go to Chicago and then stay overnight to catch train the next day. No bus service that I’ve found that could get him there. We would end up driving him back and forth . . . unless he could catch a ride with someone.</p>
<p>It’s just that this year has been a bad year for bills . . . son had to pay for most of the travel to look at schools . . . so that depleted his college savings and then we did not have the $ for property taxes this year so instead of dipping into the children’s education fund (that’s the only available surplus we have) when stock market is so low, son borrowed us the rest of his savings for college to pay the property taxes. We’ve only needed to dip into the college fund once before - again to pay those darn real estate taxes. . . just been a bad year with car repairs, appliance repairs, paying into taxes for the first time ever, etc. He’s to get a lap top as a graduation present and in leiu of a present for his 17th and 18th birthdays and as his major present for the past two Christmas’. I had really thought we could swing it out of our regular income but now afraid I will need to dip into the $ we’ve saved for college for that.</p>
<p>Brandeis does have National Merit . . . up to $2,000 per year, probably based on need, which based on our EFC we wouldn’t have. He would probably get some but son received letter today from Nationa Merit that he received their $2500 one time scholarship. They called him a month or so ago and told him he had to name a school as he was up for a corporate scholarship - surprising since neither husband or I work for corporations. I was so hoping for a renewable corporate scholarship . . . but no go. Not sure if he would even be eligible for Brandeis National Merit scholarship since he was awarded the one time national merit scholarship. </p>
<p>Thanks for all the support, suggestions, it is so much appreciated. I’m home with flu today and have been crying all day feeling that I’ve failed him so I do so much appreciate your thoughts and good wishes. This communication on cc has been theraputic for me and hopefully tomorrow I will be less emotional and able to sit down with son, do the research that needs to be done and help him come to a decision.</p>
<p>Okay, enough of me. </p>
<p>Best of luck to all the other students searching to make their dreams become a reality.</p>
<p>I’m going to be the contrarian here, and say that for a budding computer scientist there’s an excellent chance that if he’s willing to spend a few years living frugally, he can pay off those loans pretty quickly.</p>
<p>KimFred- Tommorrow will be a brighter day. I’m sure it will all work out. </p>
<p>Here’s hoping that you find out some good info tomorrow.</p>
<p>‘Sweet Sleep’ (from George of the Jungle)</p>
<p>Some colleges “extend” the one-time NM scholarships. So NMC pays the first year, and they continue it for the following years, usually at the $2000 level. It wouldn’t hurt to ask Brandeis to do that. :)</p>
<p>“U of WI - too big for son, party school, he’s heard lots of negatives about it from students who went there. We also looked at honors programs within larger colleges . . . but he just wanted to stay away from the frat/party/jock scene”</p>
<p>I have empathy because younger S decided not to apply to U of WI after attending a summer program there and hearing about all of the partying.</p>
<p>However, younger S ended up at a small 2nd tier LAC that has a partying reputation, yet has been very happy there. He even has found roommates for next year who, like him, don’t drink. I think that if my S can find like minded friends at a relatively small party school, your S probably can find friends at a big party school. Not all students at U of Wis. are into partying. </p>
<p>My S also found that the kind of clubs that he joined helped him meet students whose values and interests are like his. Considering U of WI’s size, there must be clubs that would attract students like your S. For instance, my S has found like minded people in clubs organized around community service, photography, anime, and ballroom dancing (something S took up to meet his PE requirement).</p>
<p>Did your S check out these living communities at U Wis.-Madison?
"
Bradley Learning Community is entering its thirteenth year at UW-Madison. We strive to expand the first year experience of new students, providing opportunities for our residents that are difficult to find anywhere else on campus. Through our motto, “Understanding is Integration” we seek to expand the horizons of our residents by offering learning experiences outside the classroom environment. We believe that every event, from dance lessons to organic dinners to community service projects, will help enforce the idea that “Learning is Everywhere”</p>
<p>“Chadbourne Residential College comprises more than 800 University of Wisconsin-Madison undergraduate students who live together in Barnard and Chadbourne Halls. As a residential learning community, CRC blends academic life and residential hall living. CRC encourages active student involvement in residential life activities and student governance, and a commitment to issues, activities, and programs related to social change.
Together we create a community of learners committed to the life of the mind in the broadest sense.
Together we will use a variety of informal activities – lectures, symposia, discussion groups, field trips, film nights, art exhibits, parties – to complement our formal studies.”</p>
<p>Thanks NorthStar Mom for the comments and for your obvious research! Son would not even consider Madison . . . it was the only school that he had that reaction about. He viewed the thread earlier this evening and I’m sure will want to view it again tomorrow. Maybe it will make him think again!</p>
<p>The point about want vs need strikes home. It is a concept I have tried to teach my children and perhaps I am forgetting about in my emotional response.</p>
<p>I do thank you, I think the tears are drying up!</p>
<p>I just wanted to share my son’s article . . . perhaps it may help some teen somewhere. A co worker has it posted on her refrigerator and makes sure every teen who visits her home reads it.</p>
<p>Published - Tuesday, October 16, 2007</p>
<p>HILLTOP VIEW: Kindness can save someone’s life</p>
<p>By RUSSELL B</p>
<p>High school is a time of sweeping changes and life-long memories; a time of carefree happiness and new friendships; a time of girlfriends, boyfriends and football games. Right?</p>
<p>I hated middle school, and, walking into OHS for the first time, I was fairly sure I was going to hate high school, too.</p>
<p>I was never popular in middle school. I’m not even sure I had a single friend. I didn’t play any sports and wasn’t a part of any clubs.</p>
<p>My single claim to fame in those days was my size. At 6 feet and 235 pounds, I wasn’t exactly a burgeoning swimsuit model. Looking back, it’s hard to imagine being overweight. It’s even harder to remember what it felt like.</p>
<p>The food jokes, always being picked last for sports, and even the pain of being called fat have faded with time. Yet there is one thing I do remember — one thing I will never forget.</p>
<p>Hating yourself is a horrible feeling. To wake up every morning and stare into the eyes of the person you despise most gnaws at a person in a way nothing else can. I can remember sitting in my bedroom for hours replaying every fat joke and every snide comment over and over again, and wondering, what would happen if I just ended it all?</p>
<p>Would anyone even miss me? Would anyone even notice?</p>
<p>High school is a time of sweeping changes and life-long memories; of carefree happiness and new friendships; of girlfriends, boyfriends, and football games-for some teenagers. High school is a time of social upheaval and painful realizations for many more.</p>
<p>I don’t know how close I came to the edge, but I know it was too close. The power of words is astounding, cutting deeper than the sharpest razor, leaving wounds which sting years later.</p>
<p>Words brought me to the edge and words will bring others, but words can save others, too. The freshman that looks lost and overwhelmed in the hallway? Stop and help him.</p>
<p>Your teammate who doesn’t quite make the play, and loses the game for you? Walk over and let them know it’s all right.</p>
<p>Your friend who doesn’t know how to do the math problem? Show them how to solve it.</p>
<p>Kindness is a precious commodity in this life, and high school is a time during which it is in preciously short supply. You never know when your single act of kindness will bring someone back from the edge, when two minutes of your time will save a life.</p>
<p>Adolescence is a time of unparalleled changes, a time harder for some than others, but by reaching out a helping hand, we can make it a little bit easier for everyone.</p>
<p>Russell B is a senior at O____ High School.</p>
<p>I’m going to second Northstarmom’s opinion yet again, this time about the good chance of finding a compatible crowd even at a large, noisy university. It is true Wisconsin is very large and a lot of students party hard, but not all of them do. It is a beautiful campus, right on Lake Mendota, easy to get into town (it is right there at the State St. end of campus). It has many excellent departments, and a ton of research money. On the downside, in some departments undergrad. courses are large and many sections are taught by graduate students.</p>
<p>I have an undergraduate degree from Wisconsin, and I see both good and not so good in huge universities like WI. Much depends on the kid and the attitude going in. </p>
<p>Train service from Wisconsin to Boston: ouch. All trains change at Chicago. No exceptions. Train coming into Wisconsin from the west are long-distance trains that may be running so late that the connection in Chicago will be missed. Once you get on the Boston train, it is a long ride. There is a stop in Albany, where the train splits into two trains, one going into Boston, one into New York. If you are in a sleeper car, you have to get off the train, then reboard (it is an overnight ride). If traveling coach, you can stay on the train. All in all, flying might be easier, and it might not cost much more.</p>
<p>It seems like I once took a bus from central Missouri to central Wisconsin; it would have gone through Kirksville, since highway 63 is the only way to go north. You might want to check into it.</p>
<p>Your son’s article was wonderful! He really will do well no matter where he goes to school.</p>