Yup, I agree. Unfortunately, elite banking/consulting and the like, which heavily consider school name, is the most common aspirational employment choice for top business students at the undergrad level.
For an alternative to U.S. News, Tufts resides amid superb company in this Forbes article:
And the majority have no idea what the career entails.
3 Likes
Thatās a 2017 article. In Forbes most recent Best Value list at America's Best Value Colleges 2019 Tufts is ranked #100. Tufts apparently dropped from #28 to #100 in the 2 years since the 2017 article was written.
Rather than look at the ranking number itself, Iād suggest looking at the criteria used to derive the ranking, which is nearly useless from an individual student perspective. The formula used is below.
Forbes Top Colleges Rank ā 25% 2017 ā 20% 2019
Average Alumni Salary (Payscale, College Scorecard) ā 20%
Average Student Debt (College Scorecard) ā 20%
Average Net Price After FA ā 0% 2017 ā 20% 2019
Average Years to Graduate ā 15% 2017 ā 0% 2019
Graduation Rate ā 10%
Pell Grant % ā 10%
Obviously the percentages are arbitrary and have little external meaning or verification of whether the weighting selections are really correctly chosen to measure whether the college is a good value. However, more importantly the key metrics do not represent whether the college is a good value for an individual student.
For example, the average net price and average student debt, and average salary is not important on the individual student level. Instead what is important is the net price and debt for a particular student, which will completely different from the averages for most students. Just looking at the overall average cost doesnāt tell much about whether the college is a good value for an individual student.
As hinted in my earlier post, alumni salary is primarily driven by major/career choice and student characteristics, not college name. In the example majors above, the CS major working as a software engineer at Google, econ major working as a business analyst at Wayfair, and bio major working as a research coordinator at Mass General Hospital have completely differently salary expectations. Looking at the overall average from these groups doesnāt tell a prospective English major much about what type of salary he/she can expect upon graduation and whether the college is a good value.
Using some real examples. Suppose a full pay type kid wants to be a civil engineer. Is the Forbes best value ranking or article meaningful for this student? Suppose a low income kid wants to go to med school and become a doctor. Is the Forbes best value ranking or article meaningful for this student? Under what conditions would the best ranking or article be meaningful for any individual student?
2 Likes
Agreed - I have one doing MechE at Alabama and as an out of state student, it will maybe cost me $80K over 4 years (including living) - maybe a bit less. Tuition is like $2,500. Heās interning at a major auto OEM this Summerā¦his two roomies from GA Techā¦they all make the same.
My daughter accepted (also OOS) to College of Charleston - it will cost me $1K tuition next year - so over 4 years about the same $80K or so.
A Swarthmore would be $320K for one kid. Iāll be half for two kids.
Whatās the better value?
I know - long term salary, etc. etc. and I agree on average itād be better. However, Iām ok getting off inexpensively. If my kids are motivated, theyāll figure it out.
I have - and Iām not with a golden degree.
3 Likes
So, will Tufts ever be ranked higher?
Create the RolenRankings - put them up top - and then theyāll be ranked higher. Otherwise, check all the rankings each year and see.
Tufts current ranking is pretty high and seems fair.
I am curious of those who feel Tufts should be ranked higher, which schools (currently ahead of Tufts) should be ranked below Tufts?
FYI, I am an alum and am happy and impressed with how much Tufts has improved in stature and recognition over the last 40 years.
I think mid to low twennties
twenties
Iād like to know this as well and why.
Name the schools ranked 1-29 that Tufts should be considered superior to so we can have a substantive debate.
Letās get specific.
1 Like
I just looked at the USNWR rankings. Tufts seems in the right place. Possibly could switch spots with Wake Forest, but thatās about it. Itās ranked 30, maybe it should be 28.
Itās all ridiculous. Is there a huge differential between 19 and 30 or 46 and 70. You think employers in general give a hoot if someone went to #59 Florida State or 153 LSU. Or #241 wvu. Or #30 tufts or #39 W & M or Case Western or Miami. Letās be honest you are upset by US News criteria Tufts = UF. Employers have target schools and most grad schools donāt care. They care about gpa and test scores. A regional ranked college of Charleston can get into Harvard Law and a Tufts not.
Itās maddening to debate this. And I havenāt thrown in that itās not really #30. We havenāt included the LACs. Forbes says #34!!
2 Likes
Agreed re Wake Forest. Any others would be the subject of spirited debate.
Also, remember, Tufts, like Stanford, NYU, and USC benefit greatly from their locations. None of these schools would be ranked as high as they are if they werenāt based near Boston, Silicon Valley, NYC, LA (respectively). Imagine the rank of any of these schools if they were based in upstate NY, in Maine, or a 5-hour drive from any major airport.
In some ways, top schools with very remote/unattractive locations (like Cornell, Dartmouth, Williams, Bowdoin, etc) have more reasons to be proud of their rankings because they are so hard to get to and probably experience difficulty to attract the best students from abroad/afar.
Rankingwise, at 30, Tufts is in great shape and where it deserves to be.
To get to 25, which schools would you remove? I challenge you to name five.
To get to 20, you are just dreaming.
3 Likes
@tsbna44
The title of the thread is Should Tufts be Ranked Higher?
If you feel it is ridiculous/maddening, thanks for your valuable input. Why not just move on and leave the people who are interested to discuss politely?
Minimizing what others choose to discuss is discourteous and perhaps reflective of some insecurity?
1 Like
All opinions are welcome as long as they meet ToS.
1 Like
I did not say I donāt want to debate it - Iām simply pointing out the differences amongst schools in rank is often inconsequential. This was an old chain - that restarted.
Anyway, your comment is fair, i acknowledge.
2 Likes
Iāll compare with #21 Emory.
In 2019-20, Emory had 15.6% admit rate and 29.3% yield with 31-34 ACT range. 19.9% Pell and 90% 6-yr grad rate. 9:1 student to faculty ratio and 100% need met.
In 2019-20, Tufts had 15.0% admit rate and 47.4% yield with 32-34 ACT range. 11.5% Pell and 94.3% 6-yr grad rate. 9:1 student to faculty ratio and 100% need met.
1 Like
So the criteria youāve chosen is similar. The criteria US News has chosen is not - Grad Rate, Social Mobility, Academic Reputation (thatās not subjective :)), Faculty Resources. Student Selectivity is only 7%.
Perhaps Emory should be #30 !!
No one would look down at someone who chose Tufts over Emory or vice versa.
A sciences student may see Emory as stronger. A techie might see Tufts. Or someone may want to be up North vs. down South.
Both great schools.
1 Like