<p>So sad. And the coverage and discussion difference is sadly so different from the colorado shooting.</p>
<p>Yes, it’s all very sad. My heart goes out to the congregation and the community.</p>
<p>There also wasn’t as huge an amount of coverage several years ago when a right wing gunman entered a Unitarian Universalist church in Tennessee and started shooting people.</p>
<p>Everyone goes to the movies. Everyone thinks “That could have been me.” Not as many people go to Sikh temples or UU churches.</p>
<p>Agree with you on all counts, seahorsesrock.</p>
<p>The intolerance and violence just seems to be ever increasing. No surprise given what we hear from our leaders. My hearts go out to all affected by this-which should be every single American who values life over hate.</p>
<p>What’s there to say? We live in a country where anyone - including wingnuts and extremists - can arm themselves to the teeth. Until that changes these things will happen again and again. And again and again. Mass shootings will become as commonplace as multi-car accidents on the freeway. People will tsk tsk for a bit, and forget. I bet the day will come when a shooting with fewer than, say, 4 fatalities won’t even make the news. </p>
<p>America. Gotta love it. But hey: we’re getting really good at memorials.</p>
<p>^ Absolutely. “Never forget.” :rolleyes:</p>
<p>This Milwaukee story sounded all too familiar. Then I found this; different religion, but same outcome.</p>
<p>[Church</a>, Police Probe 7 Murders - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-679823.html]Church”>http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-679823.html)</p>
<p>There is a big difference between this Temple shooting and the church shooting linked to above. That shooting was by a person who attended that church. Nuts, yes, but not a hate crime. </p>
<p>I’m not against guns. If you look at violence stats, as the number of guns has risen dramatically we’ve seen no increase in general gun violence. It’s even ironic that so much hysteria has been generated over non-existent threats to control guns and odd bits of violence even as crime has gone down. I did a study of crime along the border, for example, and found that crime went down and by a lot even as the hysteria over illegals increased. One example does not make a trend. </p>
<p>(As an example, I don’t get the reporting over “arsenals” people own. People may own lots of guns and ammunition. It’s not really different than owning a bunch of putters or power tools. If you like weapons, you tend to have a bunch of weapons. The number doesn’t make a person dangerous.) </p>
<p>That said, the NRA has pushed this too far in 2 areas. One is “stand your ground” nonsense. That demonstrably leads to more shootings. The latest I know of was a guy who shot a person who tried to drop off a flier for a business. He claimed fear of his life, that the guy had something unknown in his hand. Those claims can only be made because the law exists; otherwise, he could not justify gun use. (AFAIK, a witness says the guy shot the person and then waited and shot him in the head as he was on the ground, but that doesn’t change the claim he made under law and his ability to defend his actions using that.)</p>
<p>The second way the NRA has gone too far is their insistence that anyone can get guns. Many, if not most states are presumptive issue states, but I don’t think many people realize the NRA wants felons to be able to get guns, even those convicted of violent crimes. They have become an absolutist organization with little resemblance to the NRA of the past, which concentrated on sportsmen’s rights. You can be disqualified from voting as a felon and get a gun. Weird. They also want to limit the ability to disqualify a person because of mental illness. I gather the idea is that the state could “claim” mental illness to strip people of gun rights. The price is massacres of innocents. </p>
<p>And of course the NRA argument is that the Sikhs should have been armed themselves because the only defense is a gun.</p>
<p>Ironically, the origins of Sikhism itself could legitimately be described as a “warrior cult.” With no negative implication of the word “cult” in this case. Of course, the weapon they are required to carry is a knife, often a purely ceremonial one these days. So they were “armed,” so to speak. Maybe they need to update that knife to a Glock. :(</p>
<p>What I find strange is the mention by TV commentators that because of the turbans, Sikhs are often confused with Muslims. I don’t get that at all. Head coverings worn by Arabs don’t look like turbans at all. A Sikh could be confused with Hindus, for example, but not an Arab or Muslim.</p>
<p>Just don’t get it.</p>
<p>The shooting is sick and incomprehensible… very sad for them.</p>
<p>It’s a sad commentary that that’s even said, MA.</p>
<p>Seems like this guy may have been happy to kill brown people, Muslims or not. News says he was a white supremacist in several skinhead bands. Also discharged from the army, not able to re-enlist, whatever that means.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Military discharge types: [Military</a> discharge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge]Military”>Military discharge - Wikipedia)
Army re-enlistment eligibility: [Reenlistment</a> Eligibility (RE) Codes Explained | Army.com](<a href=“Request Information | goarmy.com”>Request Information | goarmy.com)</p>
<p>His was “general”, I read.</p>
<p>What a terrible tragedy. I really wish people could get past racism and such idiocy.</p>
<hr>
<p>Lergnom, “Stand your ground” laws are for self-defense. A murderer can claim anything they want, but if they instigated a conflict that lead to a homicide, “Stand your ground” is HIGHLY unlikely to be helpful for them. It’s happened a few times already, and people who used that as a defense, when they started the fight, lost, and went to prison.</p>
<p>What’s the source on your claim that the NRA supports violent felons getting guns? I haven’t heard that one before.</p>
<p>MADad, Muslims wear turbans some places. Afghanistan, for example. :(</p>
<p>There are lots of Muslims who are not Arabs.</p>
<p>Look up the firearms Owners protection acted, back by the NRA, it was created to give relief to felons for the disability of not being able to own guns, so yeah the NRA wants to give violent felons a second chance.</p>
<p>Do some research, it’s not a secret. The NRA has systematically worked at the state and federal level to make it easier for convicted felons, violent, unstable, etc to get guns.</p>
<p>Go figure.</p>
<p>In many stand your ground states, drug dealers, gang members etc have successfully used stand your ground to escape justice. In flrodia, In nearly a third of stand your ground case, the defedent started the fight, shot unarmed people, and went free. A recent study by the Tampa bay times shows the law is a huge mess. </p>
<p>So no Many people are getting away with murder, shooting people on the ground andin the back. Many with long criminal records, but hey, go NRA…</p>