Singaporean connection

[galoisien]

<p>fiona__:</p>

<p>How well has Singaporean government scholarships done to raise the performance of Malay and Singaporean Indian communities? It’s well known that the system is biased towards the Chinese, though the PAP tries to hide this.</p>

[1234d]

<p>

@galoisien

Because a 300 dollar/year Edusave scholarship so saved my family’s ass during the recession. Man, look at all the tutors I hired because of it!

Hah, aren’t you glad MOE gave you a free ride even though you clearly have no need for it? Maybe you are right, MOE should spend more taxpayers’ money on promoting social mobility rather than on ungrateful brats like you. </p>

<p>

@galoisien

“Well enough” won’t do anything in today’s society. You have to run forwards to maintain your position.

I’ve never hired a private tutor because I don’t see the need to. And no, I think I’m doing alright in society. </p>

<p>

@galoisien

I’m talking about tutors teaching you stuff that the education system won’t teach yet for years – it would have been nice, you know, if I had been introduced to linear algebra at 13 and not 17.

Call me ignorant but I don’t know any American high school that teaches linear algebra in 7th grade. I wonder what’s your take on SAT Math IIC. </p>

<p>

@galoisien

What about those 12 years when financial assistance was actually needed?

What kind of financial assistance are you talking about exactly? Public education is cheap and scholarship money is readily available for autonomous/independent schools if you are good enough.</p>

[galoisien]

<p>

Hah, aren’t you glad MOE gave you a free ride even though you clearly have no need for it?

I’m glad they gave me anything.</p>

<p>

Maybe you are right, MOE should spend more taxpayers’ money

</p>

<p>Remember that massive budget surplus last year? Never given back. I’m not talking about funneling more money, just restructuring.</p>

<p>

Call me ignorant but I don’t know any American high school that teaches linear algebra in 7th grade.

</p>

<p>I don’t know any Singaporean school that does either.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, there remain affluent students who could afford to learn it at that age.</p>

<p>

What kind of financial assistance are you talking about exactly?

</p>

<p>Compensation for doing well in school instead of working? Rent doesn’t pay itself you know.</p>

[frankchn]

<p>

That’s social mobility. Private sponsorship is more robust than inefficient public sponsorship, based on the state.

</p>

<p>You have never seen a well run state-based education system I suppose - since public education from Primary 1 right up to our local universities is already heavily subsidized by the government - no need for private enterprises to come to the aid of anyone.</p>

<p>

I don’t know any Singaporean school that does either.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, there remain affluent students who could afford to learn it at that age.

</p>

<p>That argument is true everywhere - not just in Singapore. Learning linear algebra in 7th grade would give you the same advantage in Singapore as it does in the US.</p>

<p>

Everyone knows that the people who do well in the PSLE, O-levels, A-levels, etc. generally solve the problems using techniques that weren’t covered in the syllabus.

</p>

<p>Really? I just did what my teachers at school told me and I seem to have done alright.</p>

<p>

What about those 12 years when financial assistance was actually needed?

</p>

<p>In government schools like River Valley or NJ, you pay about S$15 a month in school fees. Even if you are in independent schools like RI and HC, you can still qualify pretty easily for EESIS/ESIP - which is S$2,400/year to cover your relatively more expensive school fees at those schools.</p>

<p>Programmes such as YDSP, SRP, NRP etc are all free to everyone, and so are competitions like the Olympiads or SSEF. What sort of subsidy do you want?</p>

[1234d]

<p>

I’m glad they gave me anything.

And you go on to complain about the a lack of financial assistance here. Logic really escapes you. </p>

<p>

Remember that massive budget surplus last year? Never given back. I’m not talking about funneling more money, just restructuring.

You’ve evidently lost touch with reality here - there was a budget deficit last year.
[channelnewsasia.com</a> - Singapore’s FY08 budget deficit to swell](<a href=“http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/390574/1/.html]channelnewsasia.com”>http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/390574/1/.html)
Yet I don’t remember MOE cutting down on all those financial assistance schemes.</p>

<p>

I don’t know any Singaporean school that does either.

Point taken. So why are you complaining about Singapore schools then? </p>

<p>

Nevertheless, there remain affluent students who could afford to learn it at that age.

You mean students like you? If you are so concerned about social mobility why don’t you do something about it? Like all those private sponsorship stuff that you’re so smitten with? That would be much more helpful than whining on a public forum from the safe confines of your UVA campus.</p>

[fiona_1]

<p>Hey guys… Let’s agree to send Soong to Coventry. Please?</p>

[frankchn]

<p>

Compensation for doing well in school instead of working? Rent doesn’t pay itself you know.

</p>

<p>I don’t see how this comes into the question. Does any organization anywhere provide so much money in scholarships/etc such that your scholarship “income” can substitute for your entire family’s income in addition to your tuition fees/room+board? Even the Gates Millennium Scholarships doesn’t provide that sort of money.</p>

[1234d]

<p>fiona, what’s up with Coventry?</p>

[fiona_1]

<p>“send someone to coventry” = cute phrase meaning ignore them.</p>

[1234d]

<p>wow i didn’t know that. haha</p>

[frankchn]

<p>^ Me neither =p</p>

[Nadash]

<p>What’s wrong with you guys, personal attacks? And fiona, go sit in that corner. Here’s a dunce cap. </p>

<p>Personally, I think the Singaporean system is already rather meritocratic, given that the fees are heavily subsidized. Furthermore, the competition isn’t as intense as, say, Korea, Japan or China; students can still get by without cram schools or tuition. And I think, based on the Straits Times (shock), that polytechnics and ITEs are getting their fair share of attention, monetary-wise. I see a genuine effort to expand education beyond the top 10%. The 4th university, too, for example.</p>

<p>And galoisien, a lot of your arguments are rather baseless. I would require proof of “discrimination against Malays”. Other than in the army, or in higher political positions.</p>

[fiona_1]

<p>What personal attacks? I’m completely innocent, except for being mean to Galo.</p>

[galoisien]

<p>The lack of SAP schools for other languages besides Mandarin; how good performance in Mandarin MT is seen as more meritable than good performance in other MTs, general cultural bias. </p>

<p>

Does any organization anywhere provide so much money in scholarships/etc such that your scholarship “income” can substitute for your entire family’s income in addition to your tuition fees/room+board?

</p>

<p>Not substitute, aid.</p>

<p>Not only does school cost tuition, there is an opportunity cost for lost income. x all those years in education.</p>

<p>Furthermore, provision of greater access to external educational resources would be good. </p>

<p>

You mean students like you?

</p>

<p>Huh?</p>

[fiona_1]

<p>

@galoey

The lack of SAP schools for other languages besides Mandarin; how good performance in Mandarin MT is seen as more meritable than good performance in other MTs, general cultural bias.

I believe they are setting up a Malay/Indo one, I read that somewhere. For Indian languages it’s a bit more complex because there’s more diversity; fewer students studying one language. (not sure if I’m putting it clearly)</p>

<p>And #2 that’s absolute BS lol. (about Chinese being prized)</p>

<p>Sidenote: I’m trying to get people to ignore you.</p>

[galoisien]

<p>

You’ve evidently lost touch with reality here - there was a budget deficit last year.
channelnewsasia.com - Singapore’s FY08 budget deficit to swell
Yet I don’t remember MOE cutting down on all those financial assistance schemes.

</p>

<p>I keep forgetting it’s '09. I was referring to '07.</p>

<p>

And you go on to complain about the a lack of financial assistance here. Logic really escapes you.

</p>

<p>Systemic and individual situations are quite two different things.</p>

<hr>

<p>frankchn:</p>

<p>

no need for private enterprises to come to the aid of anyone.

</p>

<p>Why should a public system be the norm? Why not a private system with no need for public bureaucracy to come to the aid of anyone?</p>

<p>Funnel education money into school vouchers and you’d see a much more effective education system. You’d actually see administrators trying to resolve the quagmire of “neighbourhood schools”.</p>

<p>

Learning linear algebra in 7th grade would give you the same advantage in Singapore as it does in the US.

</p>

<p>Only in the US resources are much more supportive of not-so-rich students, in the form of a greater abundance workshops, recruiting drives and so forth. Oh, did I mention the Northern Virginia primary and secondary education systems? </p>

<p>

In government schools like River Valley or NJ, you pay about S$15 a month in school fees. Even if you are in independent schools like RI and HC, you can still qualify pretty easily for EESIS/ESIP - which is S$2,400/year to cover your relatively more expensive school fees at those schools.

</p>

<p>Yet I wonder why most of the top scorers come from students with affluent families…</p>

[galoisien]

<p>

And #2 that’s absolute BS lol. (about Chinese being prized)

</p>

<p>Just look at your dear Minister Mentor’s remarks. It’s almost implicit in his attitude.</p>

[1234d]

<p>

The lack of SAP schools for other languages besides Mandarin

Please, those SAP schools were traditionally Chinese schools. The SAP policy was implemented in these schools to promote bilingualism </p>

<p>

how good performance in Mandarin MT is seen as more meritable than good performance in other MTs, general cultural bias.

How the hell did you come to such a conclusion?!?!
In any case, don’t you realise that Singapore happens to have a Chinese-majority population and Chinese is gaining prominence as a language internationally, not just in Singapore?</p>

<p>

Systemic and individual situations are quite two different things.

I also received money from MOE through Edusave scholarships/bursaries/awards/programs and I’m guessing screwitlah/fiona/frank/etc probably did as well. So surely there’s something about the system that’s rewarding us financially, right?</p>

<p>

Funnel education money into school vouchers and you’d see a much more effective education system.

Again on what basis did you make such a conclusion? Don’t you think public education here is already extremely accessible/cheap here as it is?</p>

<p>

You’d actually see administrators trying to resolve the quagmire of “neighbourhood schools”.

What quagmire?</p>

<p>

Yet I wonder why most of the top scorers come from students with affluent families…

Money gives rise to opportunities, no doubt about that. But contrary to your statement, many “top scorers” that I know of come from very humble, middle-class families.</p>

[frankchn]

<p>

Not only does school cost tuition, there is an opportunity cost for lost income. x all those years in education.

</p>

<p>I find it laughable that any sort of aid or scholarship should include compensation of the opportunity cost involved in schooling. Again, does any single scholarship or aid scheme in either the US or Singapore in the world compensate for that? </p>

<p>

Yet I wonder why most of the top scorers come from students with affluent families…

</p>

<p>[citation needed]</p>

<p>

You’d actually see administrators trying to resolve the quagmire of “neighbourhood schools”.

</p>

<p>It is hardly a quagmire by any standard - considering how well Singapore scores in the TIMSS tests in general - which measures education standards across the population, not just top students.</p>

<p>

Funnel education money into school vouchers and you’d see a much more effective education system.

</p>

<p>I fail to see how that would help neighborhood schools.</p>

<p>

Now, I wonder where all the neighbourhood secondary schools send their kids to…

</p>

<p>In at least one case, to the International Physics Olympiad in JC and following that, to Stanford on an A*STAR scholarship.</p>

<p>

Why should a public system be the norm? Why not a private system with no need for public bureaucracy to come to the aid of anyone?

</p>

<p>It has worked out very well for Singapore. Why change?</p>

[galoisien]

<p>

The SAP policy was implemented in these schools to promote bilingualism

</p>

<p>Only in Singapore does “bilingualism” actually mean “speak Mandarin and English”.</p>

<p>

How the hell did you come to such a conclusion?!?!
In any case, don’t you realise that Singapore happens to have a Chinese-majority population

</p>

<p>Because I grew up in the Singaporean education system and the cultural bias was obvious? Maybe not in kids’ eyes, but the bias is there in adults. Those taking HMT in Mandarin are seen as more “cultured” or whatever, and those whose proficiency lie in the other Chinese LANGUAGES (yes, they are entire languages, if not language families, not diminutive dialects) or other non-Chinese languages are looked upon less favourably.</p>

<p>Also, it’s quite bigoted to assume that “Chinese == Mandarin”. Only 52% of the PRC speaks Mandarin, and even less speak standard Mandarin (which by the way, is a social construct – it’s not a natural dialect). The Mandarin taught in Singapore would barely be understood in some Mandarin-speaking cities.</p>

<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinitic_languages[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinitic_languages&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

Chinese is gaining prominence as a language internationally, not just in Singapore?

</p>

<p>Dude, “Chinese” is not a language. It’s a language family, if not a language superfamily. There are like thousands of Chinese languages, and about eight Chinese language families. (And I’m not even counting the extinct ones.)</p>