100% my experience at Vandy. Mine was but most are not and some of the ‘area’ hospitals license the name in essence. Part of Vandy but not fully.
But they all have cool titles - Asst Professor.
So here’s my experience–both my sister and I attended SLACs, not R1 research universities. I attended a T10 LAC, my sister attended a small regional Catholic LAC that has a 94% admit rate. Both of us got good grades and good MCATs. Neither of us had any trouble getting into medical school on the first try (and that includes the Mayo Clinic and R1 University medical schools.) Both of us were offered repeated opportunities to go down the academic medicine track during medical school and residency. Instead, both of us chose to be community doctors (quite frankly the pay and lifestyle are better. ) But both of us have friends and colleagues who did go the academic route with research and teaching. Of those who are successful academic physicians, some of them went to big name schools and some of them went to no name schools. If she goes to Scranton, this will in no way cut her off from a career in academic medicine if she so desires.
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This is all very useful information. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain all of this. The problem is, at 18, she’s not yet ready to make these decisions.
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Thank you for this. Truly.
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She should ask the professors in Chemistry, Biochemistry, Biology… where sophomores/juniors complete summer research (REU?)
When you’re talking about debt for UDel, do you mean the federal loans or parental loans?
Did she get into Honors at UDel?
All in all, I don’t think UScranton is going to be an obstacle wrt Med School. It’s a solid college, especially for science.
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I understand. My daughters didn’t decide to pursue medicine until they were in the latter half of college.
And picking out a specialty before MS3-4 is insane.
I’m not suggesting she do that.
I just want you (and her) to understand that academic medicine doesn’t mean hospital-based medicine because that’s just not true.
I would be more concerned about the quality of pre-med advising at Scranton than anything else. She should ask specific questions about what types of advice and services the office provides to pre-meds.
- Do they help applicants understand their level of competitiveness for certain med schools?
- How familiar are the advisors with med schools outside the local PA region?
- Can they help her find clinical volunteering?
- Do they have list of local physicians who have allowed students to shadow them in the past?
- Do they provide assistance and support for applying to summer internship programs?
- What about assistance and support for applying to summer research experience programs?
- Do they provide mock [med school] interviews and offer feedback?
- Does Scranton do committee letters/packet letters for med school applications?
- Are the pre-med advisors NAAHP members?
- Does the school have a local chapter for AMSA or other pre-med clubs/organizations?
BTW, Generic advice is OK because everyone’s path to med school is different…
But bad advising…that can really hurt an applicant’s chances.
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Another thing to keep in mind, “research” does not have to be bench science in a lab, nor does it have to be a formal summer clinical research program. Working with a Psychology professor on factors that influence the adoption of healthy habits is also research. Working with a Latino Studies professor on a community project exploring how adult immigrants learn to navigate the safety net is also research.
She should do what interests her, and do it well.
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But whatever research she does choose has to employ the scientific method
That’s the one thing med school do care about. Not the subject matter, but the process.
(Heck, D1 did medium energy particle physics research.)
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I always appreciate your real world perspective @fiftyfifty1
If you look at true professors at academic hospitals, they come from all school types.
On the cc, people believe there are absolutes.
There are typically no absolutes. Just individual experiences some think are the only because that’s what they’ve seen.
I love @WayOutWestMom and your perspective - two great ones that both can be right as could others.
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Another data point, for what it’s worth:
My sister volunteers on the med school admissions committee for her old med school alma mater (one of the med schools listed up thread coincidentally.) She tells me they are sick of “the clones.” She says that they get endless applicants with perfect GPAs, and near-perfect MCATs, and all the same summer research programs, and all the same shadowing hours, and all the same volunteering experiences. And she wonders who advised these students that they needed to check these identical boxes.
I mean there is no getting around needing top grades and top scores, that part you do need to prioritize! But with all the other stuff you should follow your interests. Be genuine. My sister loves to see research in the social sciences or the humanities. She loves to see volunteering that doesn’t occur within the walls of a clinic or hospital. She loves to see clinical hours in the form of lowly jobs (both my sister and I worked changing diapers in nursing homes. Both of us can still change a mean adult diaper.)
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If she chose UD, she’d have about 20k in debt a year. It’ll be a big burden after 4 years, but yes she did get accepted into the honors program.
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I just set up a phone call with their pre-med advising department and will definitely dig deeper with these questions. Thank you, again!
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This is a great mention, thank you. My daughter is immensely interested in neuroscience and psych, so it’s good to know that varied research arenas are appreciated.
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80k in debt for undergrad, especially before Med school but even without it, is WAY too much.
UDel is not worth that much debt.
(For perspective, the federal loans for 4 years are 27k, with interest 31k, because it takes a typical college graduate about 10 years to pay back that much on average. So, if she didn’t go to Med school and just took the federal loans of 5.5k, 6.5k, 7.5k, 7.5k, she’d be paying that back till 30 at best.)
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I don’t believe your daughter will be at a disadvantage attending the LAC she likes. Happy students do better in college, and for medical school, she will need to be at the top of the game.
She actually can’t make this decision now about academic medicine.Sure, she could do research at some undergrad school…which she also might be able to do during summers. She could also do research in medical school. Some med school students add a research year to their studies.
Doing research in undergrad school won’t guarantee her admission to medical school. It also won’t guarantee her a residency at an academic program, and it won’t guarantee her a job eventually in academic medicine.
I would be glad to clarify via DM if you would like my perspective from a personal family member.
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I have no idea how research works at R1 universities but the fact that there are grad and doctural students would concern me about opportunities for undergrads, esp first and second years. LACs prioritize their undergrads so as long as there are research opportunities I would think it would be a wash.
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My daughter attended an R1 university and was involved in research all 4 years starting in November of her first year. She told me it was easy to get and that it was hard to find a student who wanted to do research but struggled to find it.
That was her experience. Others may differ.
To the OP: your daughter does not have to determine her career path right now. She has a long road ahead of her regardless, and if she likes the SLAC, if it is affordable and she would be happy attending…then it’s a win, imo.
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Both my daughters attended R1 universities.
One was a big state school; one was mid-sized private (~6500 undergrads). The private school prided itself on the number of freshmen involved in research. It was talking point at orientation and at Parents’ Weekend. And, indeed, if you wanted a research position, you could get a research position. Basically all you needed to do is ask one of your professors.
At the state U, if a student was highly motivated and sought out opportunities, research positions for freshmen were available. In fact, if you were in the honors program, you were guaranteed a research position and the program held events to connect students with research mentors/labs. (D at the state U was NOT part of the honors program but she found a research position relatively easily just by asking a couple of her professors. Her sister also was offered a research position at the university when she was a high school student–something she found on her own by cold emailing professors.)
The thing about R1 universities is that all research programs need unpaid/volunteer helping hands. There’s always stuff that needs to be done and not enough time/hands to do it.
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A couple of additional questions she may want to ask:
- Does the advising office provide support to alumni applicants? (Most pre-meds take 1-3 gap years before applying to med school)
- If they do provide support, how are alumni applicants prioritized? (Are they last in line or are they considered equally along with current undergrads?)
The HP advising office does not need to provided everything included in my list of questions, but it will tell your daughter what kind of help they’re willing to provide her.
Applying to med school is expensive (several thousand $$) and emotionally exhausting. You don’t really want to have to do it more than once.
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Goes without saying (well, maybe it does need saying.)
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