Pre-Med Track
Is my DD at a disadvantage if she chooses a debt-free SLAC that she likes over an R1 research university that will end in undergrad debt? Plans for med school. We’re well aware of med school statistics and drop out rates, as well as how hard premed coursework is.
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No. Why would she be? She will be debt free. That is always an advantage.
You don’t mention the colleges. You can check out the premed advising at the LAC and ask what what percentage of their students are accepted to med school. You can ask the same at the university. I doubt the university will have a much higher acceptance rate to med school.
It is a huge misconception that students at LACs have a hard time getting into med school. Getting into med school is largely dependent on grades, MCAT scores, experience, and recommendations. The name of the university is probably one of the least important factors.
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Thank you. It’s what we’ve known, but I needed reassurance as we edge closer to committing. Its the University of Scranton (which boasts excellent outcomes), VS Northeastern, University of Delaware, Rutgers, Fordham… all with significant debt. University of Delaware has her heart but the $ isn’t there.
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She’s at a disadvantage at the R1 and R1, R2, etc. or LAC - forget selective - won’t matter.
Going to an R1 means little for most everyone.
R2 colleges include W&M (just got upgraded to R1), Creighton, Fordham, JMU, Miami Ohio, TCU, Tulsa and many other fine colleges.
Pick the school that’s best for them.
Perhaps shadowing opportunities are a factor - but Research Level status not.
No one is sitting around and saying - New Mexico State is R1 but William & Mary is/was R2, etc.
And if they don’t go to med school, no debt vs. significant debt - Scranton would be the wise choice anyway.
Who is paying the “significant” debt - especially if the job market isn’t good?
Debt is a financial stranglehold around you - it takes optionality away. I don’t know what’s significant - but it makes that strangulation even tighter.
That’s no good no matter the choices.
Good luck.
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There is no world where I think the debt of Northeastern is worth it. Med school is horribly expensive so no debt is unequivocally the right option. Plus she likes it.
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Oh Northeastern was eliminated immediately. Laughable. But she does has some offers with more reasonable COA’s.
My daughter was an exercise science major, so lots of pre-med classes, it came down to Scranton and UD (both gave good merit), I think she preferred the UD campus, but it really came down to if she wanted a direct admit to the DPT program, or 4 years of undergrad and applying to DPT programs. She preferred UD’s 4 year. They were generous with AP/DE classes (9/2) and she graduated in 3 years. It’s easier choosing when they are the same price.
She should go to the school she likes best, assuming affordability.
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Sounds like only Scranton is affordable.
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Scranton and no debt sounds great to me. Congrats!
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She may not have the same opportunities to get research lab experience at the SLAC, but there are summer programs that offer research exposure for students who don’t have those opportunities at their home institutions. She could ask the health professions advising office at Scranton about those. (Note: if they can’t tell her about summer pre-med programs, then that calls the reliability and quality of the pre-med advising into question. Use that information as part of her decision-making process. )
I will say that importance of research exposure is going to depend on how she views her future career as a physician.
Does she want to be an academic physician? A MD/PhD? A physician-researcher?
Or she is more interested in being a community physician? A primary care doctor?
If the former is her ultimate ambition, then not having significant exposure to undergrad research will hurt her chances of gaining an admission at research intensive med schools. (Think JHU, WashU, Harvard, Columbia, Yale, Stanford, Penn, UCLA, Mayo, Duke, etc)
If it’s the latter and she would be fine with attending her in-state public med school or a service-oriented private med school (Think Creighton, Loyola, Tulane, Georgetown, Rush, SLU, GW, Drexel, Temple etc), then while some research experience is expected*, other experiences (esp community service and leadership) are more highly valued.
*A summer program will suffice for research exposure.
There is an advantage to graduating debt-free from undergrad as a pre-med, but that advantage should also be viewed in the context of her future earnings. Consider how much debt your D would need to take on vs. her potential future earnings. (For context: the median salary of a pediatrician–the lowest paid specialty-- is around $190K/year. Neurosurgery --the highest paid specialty–is around $800K/year))
Although I am the first to recommend minimizing debt for undergrad, a small/reasonable amount of debt is worthwhile if it makes a difference in achieving one’s ultimate goal.
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I don’t think one needs to go to an R1/R2 institution to get undergraduate research opportunities.
They may have more, highly funded but they are far from the only schools with research opportunities.
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Agreed, but it one wants to matriculate at a research-intensive med school, you’ll need significant research lab exposure. That means a R1 or R2.
R3 institutions (and non-Carnegie rated colleges/univeristies) just don’t have the same level of research funding, nor facilities and staff needed to do long term in-depth research. Undergrad student research opportunities won’t be prioritized. (Money, lab space, projects will go to doctoral students, if any, and master’s degree seekers.)
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Thanks for your first hand experience with med school academic and career path insights.
If memory serves you have a kid that’s a Doctor?
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Two, actually
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You had me at one😀.
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The in-laws aren’t too shabby either. One is a full professor and director of major research institute in his field; the other is finishing his DPT after a bumpy career start first as a professional athlete and then an educator.
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Thank you, this is immensely helpful.
I do believe she’ll tend toward the academic physician. She can’t make that decision right now but she does want to work in a hospital vs private practice. This is so stressful 
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Let me clear up some misconceptions.
Not all hospitals are “academic medicine”. Academic medicine refers ONLY to physicians who work at teaching hospitals (hospitals that are part of med school/research center) and who train medical residents.
Some specialties are hospital-based; some aren’t.
Ob/gyn, surgery, orthopedics, anesthesia, emergency medicine, ophthalmology, ENT, critical care–these are all hospital-based specialties. (Any specialty that does invasive procedures or surgeries is hospital-based.) Any physicians in one of these specialties will work in a hospital. However, not all of them will be academic medicine physicians.
For example, a EM doc who works at your local hospital and does NOT teach medical residents is community physician. A Ob/gyn who delivers babies at a stand alone birthing center or local hospital and doesn’t teach medical residents is a community physician. The surgeon who removes your gall bladder at a local hospital and doesn’t teach medical residents is a community physician. Anyone who is not directly tasked with teaching medical residents at teaching hospital is a community physician.
Most physicians are community medicine physicians.
A FYI, private practice is term that seriously out of date. Very few physicians today actually work in private practice. (That is, the doctor owns the medical practice and may own their own clinic/office.) In another decade (by the time your daughter starts practicing if she does go to med school), private practice will be entirely extinct. Most doctors are salaried employees of a large healthcare organization. In the MountainWest, it might be Intermountain Health. In California, it might be Kaiser Permanente. In the DC area, it might be Medstar. In NJ, Atlanticare or Hackensack Meridian Health.
These corporately-owned healthcare systems employ doctors who are both hospital based specialists (OB/GYN, surgeons, anesthesiologists, gastroenterologists, EM, urologists, etc) and clinic-based physicians (family medicine, neurologists, pediatricians, dermatologists, internists, oncologists, etc.)
Some medical schools have gotten into the healthcare system business–Yale has in CT has. Hackensack Meridian has in NY/NJ. Geisinger and Pitt in PA have. But not all the doctors who work for these system owned by med school based healthcare organizations are academic physicians. Most are community physicians because they are NOT directly involved with teaching at the med school and don’t generally supervise residents. They just see patients.
Most physicians, regardless of their specialty or whether they work in a hospital or outpatient clinic, are community physicians.
So share this info with your daughter so she can make a more informed decision about her choice of undergrad based on correct information.
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