LOL. Then Indiana’s BSOF program might be the best option. Indiana has an awesome psychology program, especially in clinical and social research. And the BSOF is specifically designed for musicians to complete a double major in four years instead of five. And there might be 529 funds leftover to help her out with grad school.
Is IU’s BSOF a double major or double degree? I ask because Oberlin’s 5 year program is two separate degrees, not two majors, and the other degree must be in the college, not in the conservatory. You can double major in the conservatory, but not double degree. It can be done in 4 (there’s one in my son’s class right now doing that and yes, their other degree is a hard science degree, who knows how they managed it) but it’s very demanding and difficult to achieve in 4 years.
Can you clarify?
@CollegeDadNY I agree with your thinking that if your daughter desires undergrad performance opportunities, the conservatories without grad students (which do seem to be the smaller ones) are the way to go. I can tell you that at BU, there are little to no performing opportunites in voice for undergrads. They are all for grads and visiting artists. I don’t have any knowledge of the other programs you mentioned.
My oldest graduated with a BSOF (Bachelors of Science with an Outside field) in voice and history from IU Jacobs. It is achievable in 4 years but is definitely rigorous. It was explained to us like this: While a true double major is like 2 separate trees each with its own gen eds and major requirements, a BSOF is like one tree with 2 main branches—the trunk being shared gen eds and the two branches being the requirements for each major. The degree meets all the requirements for both areas, so a kid can go to grad school in both or either. My daughter went on to do her masters in vocal performance at Jacobs while her outside field got her a good job in a campus museum that helped to pay her way. And now in the real world, she has a great job in DC that allows for remote work if needed so she can take gigs and audition. She is a regular with the Washington Concert Opera chorus, does church gigs, and has regular engagements with small opera companies and symphony orchestras. It has been a win win but was A LOT of work in undergrad. I’ll add that the outside field can be in just about anything, but lab sciences can take more than 4 years to complete due to the conflicts between lab times and ensemble requirements.
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Ah, ok, got it- so it is not the same as a double degree program. I appreciate the context and explanation!
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In the grand scheme of thing, does any employer care if you have two degrees or two majors? I’m guessing not but perhaps I’m wrong.
Yes, exactly! IU’s BSOF is a dual degree program, not a double degree program. My D23 is in the five-year double degree program (BM Voice/BA Written Arts) at Bard College/Bard Conservatory, which cannot be completed in four years (wish it could, but she is enjoying it).
@musicmomtimes3 - your daughter’s experience sounds really impressive! Good luck to her!
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Thanks! And I don’t want to make it sound like it has been all unicorns and rainbows – haha. There is A LOT of rejection and redirection in the voice performance industry. But she has definitely carved out a lifestyle of balance between following her passion and paying the bills. Would she like it to tip more toward singing and performance? Maybe at times, but she also wants stability and the time/resources to follow her other passions like traveling, being involved in her community, etc.
And I get ya on the 5 year double degree. She also was accepted to Oberlin for a double but even with good scholarships just couldn’t make the numbers work with 5 years. Being instate, IU Jacobs definitely couldn’t be beat. She hasn’t looked back. The training she received was amazing, and she is set up for success in multiple areas.
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Well this implies that that focus comes at the detriment of the undergrads. As I have stated in previous comments, that hasn’t been the experience of my daughters. I think Bridgenail would say the same for his.
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Absolutely. But the bias against large schools seems to march on. Probs true for small schools too by people who favor large. IMHO, it’s all about fit. If large is not a good fit…go small…and prosper!
Glad to hear that your D is doing so well. Her experience sounds a lot my D’s after college. My D makes all of her income performing and teach privately now. She’s very content with her professional life (although she is constantly auditioning). On that note, I will put one plug in for IU. My D has said…it taught her to advocate for herself…fiercely sometimes. And, that has been important in the real world. I’m sure that you can learn that at any school. No one gives you nothin’ in performance…unless you are willing to fight for it. This I know. So, here’s to our fierce daughters…fighting for those opportunites!
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Dual degree and double degree are the same thing, I thought. Do you mean double major?
You are absolutely right in that the terms “dual degree” and “double degree” are usually used interchangeably. Jacobs SOM refers to the BSOF program as a “dual degree” program which can be completed within four years, which is a bit confusing.
I don’t see the term “dual degree” here but I am sure you are right. Music and an Outside Field : Jacobs School of Music Bulletin Now I am curious. Is this one BS degree?
This is where I saw it. Dual Degrees: Admissions: Jacobs School of Music: Indiana University Bloomington
Yes one degree with 2 parts. See my description of it from a couple days back in this thread if you missed it. At least that was the way it was explained to us at orientation that year.
The 4 year BSOF described in the link you provided is not a dual degree. It is a double major, under one degree . I think you may have misunderstood because the content is a little unclear.
The paragraph goes on to say that dual (double) degrees are also possible by combining a BM, BS, BME or with a degree in one of the other schools at IU. which presumably would take 5 years.
The BSOF is an unusual opportunity.
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To top this conversation off about IU and BSOF (particularly for next year’s crop of vocalists), I’ll add a few other comments.
You have to be careful in assuming your kid’s goals are the same as others. Of course these are VP programs so it would make sense that all want to be classical singers on opera stages. When my D chose IU, one of the reasons was the BSOF program. She had auditioned for a few VP, MT and one theater program. She was unsure of which performance path she wanted. For those who understand Voice…she has a decidedly classical and big (loud) voice, naturally. She is not a pop or rock singer. So she got the most money and best teacher in VP. She talked to the teacher about her outside interest in MT and theater (both available at IU). The teacher said that she would support her with those interests. My D was fine knowing she may not do main stage operas early on. She hoped to show her talents when she got there…and see where she could get cast. We went to an MFA play during our visit. She met with the theater head and was excited to have theater as her “outside field”…and I supported that…but I wanted the degree done in 4 years. She was not the only person in her class…not gunning to get in the main stage operas. There was another BSOF in theater. He ended up not auditioning over time for opera roles and just did theater. He did have to do opera chorus for his ensemble each semester. There was also one singer/songwriter who was in-state and wanted a BM. She couldn’t afford to go out of state and never auditioned for opera roles. It wasn’t her interest.
In performance, in the real world, being multi-talented has really helped my D. There are just more opportunities to work. My D does light opera, classical MT, straight theater (less so than the other two…but some) and on-camera. She also teaches privately and at a music school. So she is happy that she followed her gut and did a variety of studies.
Very few performance majors make it on performing alone…in one discipline (opera for example). The tippy top can. But most “work” another job. I think the BSOF and the opportunities at IU (probably available at other schools too) allows you to study in the way that you will work. 75% of you time will be music and 25% will be your outside field. When you graduate it could flip to the opposite numbers…but as you build a career…the performance side should grow. When my D graduated she had to have a “survival job”. She was able to build to all music now (performing and teaching). She also had to do a variety of singing (available at IU): opera chorus, soloist with regional orchestras, opera roles at small opera companies (nothing like the IU main stage! One place was a noisy bar!)…and then some small theaters and MT theaters to build her resume. She did do one YAP program as well.
Final note: I think that a small school is perfectly fine. My D’s second choice was a small LAC. She seriously considered it…but ended up at IU due to the teacher, the BSOF, the cost with merit was the best (slightly)…and she was unconcerned about main stage opera roles (and as I said earlier…she ended up with a principal role Sophomore year so her stage time was all opera in the end). IMHO, it is about individual fit more than which school has the “secret sauce” for all. Any selective music school will do a great job with UG students. So go to the school that matches your key criteria…instead of worrying about which is “best”. If you’re happy, you’ll grow and that the best school for you.
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If your daughter wants lots of performance opportunities as an UG, then go with CMU. I have heard a lot of people talk about CMU as a music school. Do not worry about the school’s outward appearance, as in how most people talk about the school. CMU seems like a better fit for your daughter, especially if you can afford its price tag.
hi all,
Daughter is thinking about applying to piano performance BSOF at IU. Between BM and BSOF, do professors prefer BMs over BSOFs when admitting a student into a studio, all other things being equal? Ofcourse, there is nothing explicitly stated in IU or anywhere else.
Both are almost identical in terms of rigour, if we compare the degree plan - difference seem to be in the number of hours of private study required per semester, and the BM requiring a junior recital while BSOF doesn’t.
I was searching up BSOF in CC, and chanced upon this thread.
Do any of you have some insights or any insider scoop?
Thanks!
The Bachelor of Science in Music and an Outside Field (B.S.O.F.) is a special degree offered by the Jacobs School of Music in conjunction with other programs at IU. It offers a flexible option if you are majoring in music and also want to pursue a strong interest in another subject area, such as contemporary dance or musical theatre
What is her other field?
Hi! I had a daughter graduate with a BSOF from IU a few years back–voice and history. When she applied (9 years ago), she had heard through the grapevine (not the most reliable source, so take it with a grain of salt–haha) that some studio professors didn’t want to share their students with another major. She also heard that scholarships were better for BM vs BSOF applicants. She also was pretty sure she wanted an outside field but wasn’t set on what – she wanted time to explore her options. So she went ahead and applied as a BM major and switched to a BSOF at the end of her freshman year. (I’m pretty sure the deadline to declare an outside field is the end of the sophomore year if you want to finish on time). She was very honest with the studio profs she met with before settling on one. She told them that she was considering a BSOF and chose her prof, in part, because this prof was open to her exploring that option – the prof’s son had actually completed the BSOF a few years before.
However, having had three kids at IU Jacobs now, I have seen plenty of kids apply as BSOF majors over the years and have no trouble with scholarships and finding top studio profs. If they want you, they want you. Heck, I don’t think the winner of the MET competition this year (a Jacobs grad) had degrees that were solely dedicated to music. I feel like the world has changed somewhat in recent years. More students/families are wanting the security of a “second degree”, and Jacobs is embracing that.