Smart Little Kid

Parent Cafe
1

<p>My five year old cousin is a rather precocious child. I’m going to spare you the anecdotes if you take his intelligence for a given. I was a smart cookie, bright, bored, scary memory, ahead of most people and all of the usual gifted business, but I don’t hold a candle to this kid. My cousin is on the freaky end of “too smart”. There are smart kids. And then there is my cousin.</p>

<p>At five years and nine months, he’ll be finally entering kindergarten. My older sister says you learn how to go to school in kindergarten. Thinking back, it was generally fun, though I didn’t behave all that often. I didn’t actually feel smart in kindergarten. The gap between the information taught in school and what my cousin knows is pretty wide, and it’s just going to get worse as he gets older.</p>

<p>When I visit my aunt and uncle (not all that often since I’m in college), I usually hear “what my cousin did now” and “what will happen to him in kindergarten”? The question is largely rhetorical, it’s been asked so many times without a good answer. I don’t know if they have these conversations with everyone or more with me because I’ve experienced our town’s schools from the perspective of the bored, smart kid.</p>

<p>The person in charge of his preschool advised my aunt to call the new school principal. Her reaction was that lots of people had smart kids, kids who could read (if you only knew), and lots of parents think their kid is special.</p>

<p>To tell you the other stuff, the kid is emotionally a five year old boy, a timid one at that. He’s big for his age, 4’1", it’s the 99th precentile for his age: it’s in his genes, he sticks out and he will continue to be large. His parents were old when they had him (dad over fifty, mom over forty). He’s their only child, his parents are the type who will be in all the parents’ groups: they are interested in their kid. They don’t want him to be overscheduled or pushed, but they’re happy to bring him to t-ball and all that because he lives on a sidewalkless busy street, not cul-de-sac of kids. They don’t have a lot of money: he would be one of those automatic full scholarship kids if he got into Harvard. He’s also white.</p>

<p>Skipping grades is taboo these days. He has years of boredom ahead of him as well as a lot of potential awkwardness. Since he’s five, he has an incredible amount of drive and no shame about showing what he can do. That could turn into getting ostracized, acting out, and never being able to work hard because he will not have to really think for a very long time.</p>

<p>So I turn to the parents, who after 12 years have finished with the education of your smart kids, get to ship 'em away somewhere where your kid is “normal”. How did the first 12/13 years go? (I’m inviting you to brag about your kid)</p>

<p>Looking back, when did schools start challenging your D or S? What worked before your kid started to be challenged, so he or she was able to work hard when the occasion arose? Is there anything you regret about your child’s education or did it all work itself out? What are good activities for my cousin to get into without the risk of alienating his peers when he becomes the expert on, say, Civil War artillery or the space program and wants to talk about it all the time? What do you need to tell schools to show that concerns about a kid aren’t the result of overzealous parents, but rather the fact that the kid really is too smart for his age and they are worried?</p>

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Here is a biggie. The boy must learn to have self awareness. That goes for all kids, of course, but I’ve seen often in the truly gifted kids, they are not picking up clues from social settings. He can share his interests, but he has to be taught to ask about his friends’ interests, too. Or he won’t have any friends! It sounds as if he’s the center of attention in the family, with everyone chatting about “what he did now.” Believe me, no teacher or classmate will be quite as fascinated. </p>

<p>Is he really 4’1" !!! That’s huge. I would suggest his parents really work on his coordination, ball throwing/catching skills, bike riding, etc. He will already stand out for his size & smarts, so he should at least be able to blend in athletically.</p>

3

<p>its too bad he isn’t generally old enough to enter 1st grade, although some schools do have early entrance- I started K when I was 4 for example, and I am not particulary gifted.
As he is large- people will assume he is older, but gross motor skills are important for kids, playground skills at this age, are a big deal/ </p>

<p>I would look at schools that have mixed age classes- my daughter ended up in one, after the k teacher at local school suggested that we look outside the district.
we don’t have money either, but there are scholarships .</p>

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<p>My kids were not and are not super-gifted, so I don’t have any personal stories for you.</p>

<p>But they have gone to school with kids like that. Some of those kids fit in just fine; others didn’t. And still others weren’t really all that unusual – although their parents may have thought that they were.</p>

<p>How things turn out depends on both the style of the kid and the style of the school. I think that your aunt and uncle simply have to wait and see how it goes. </p>

<p>It may also be important to realize that although some kids who stand out as gifted at the beginning of elementary school continue to shine academically throughout their school years, others do not. In the latter case, perhaps they had a burst of development that placed them ahead of their peers in some respects, but their later development is not so atypical. </p>

<p>I have to say that I’m more concerned about the fact that your aunt and uncle seem to have a lot invested in the idea that their child is unusual than I am about how well things will go for him in kindergarten.</p>

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<p>My son enjoyed kindergarten, but even three years later in our system it got more academic. In K he worked on reading when the other kids were learning letters. Our magnet school had kindergartners going to music and art teachers, taught them Native American dances and myths, and gave them Spanish or French lessons. It was downhill from there. The first grade teacher paired him with another advanced reader and they did projects at the library. She advocated for months to get him grade advanced in math. (The principal was convinced that they could put together an advanced math group for him, the first grade teacher - bless her - was adamant that there were no other kids even close in ability.) When they finally tested him he was 5th grade level in concepts and about 3rd grade in math facts. They put him in a 3rd grade (in April! that’s how long it took) math class and he loved it. Sadly the second grade teacher wanted no part of coordinating with a fourth grade teacher. The recalcitrant principal said “4th graders were different” and my son got “problem solving math sheets” to do at his desk for the year with no guidance whatsoever. In third grade I gave a copy of Susan Winebrenner’s Teaching Gifted Kids in the Regular Classroom to the teacher. She used a lot of the idea, and let my son do computer programming. We ended up doing distance math education through EPGY part of that year. Fourth grade gifted program starts, pretty inadequate in math so another year of treading water. Fifth grade more of the same except he did another round of EPGY. Sixth grade I stamped my feet and got the middle school to grade advance him in math again. In retrospect I should have insisted on a year more than they granted and stamped my feet for science too. Finally we get to high school and everything changed. I haven’t heard ONCE that he would be younger than other kids in his class. They let him take AP Computer Science as a freshman. </p>

<p>Good activities for a gifted kid? Chess was great - our elementary school had a scholastic program and an afterschool program - there are tournaments in the schools at least once a month. And for relating to other kids? Sports (Soccer, Little League, swim team whatever floats your boat) and video games and whatever card stuff like Pokemon is currently the fad.</p>

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<p>The kid is smart. How does he fit in with his peers? Friends are important in school. If the kid has a few good friends who accept him the way he is, that will cover a lot of ground. Put a lot of thought and energy into helping him form friendships. </p>

<p>Also, how are the fine motor skills? If there are any problems with this, it is the type of thing that can be very frustrating for a smart kid in a typical school setting. – Just something to watch for. </p>

<p>The parents need to appreciate all the kids and the contributions they make, and they need to continually model this for their son, that one can learn from other people. That will help make the whole social thing so much better in school.</p>

<p>As far as what the school can do to challenge? So much depends on the school culture and the teachers. The parents should try, if possible to find teachers that like smart kids and will be a good match to their son’s personality. That will make a big difference in his school experience.</p>

<p>Just a few thoughts. Knowing the CC crowd, I’m sure you’ll get a lot of advice on this!</p>

7

<p>I’m sure you will get plenty of bright child stories here! :)</p>

<p>I don’t know if my oldest is as bright as your cousin, but there are enough similarities for me to think they would have had some things in common. S1 was reading Hardy Boys at the time he started kindergarten if that gives you a basis for comparison. My S spent K and 1st at a school that refused to test him for the Gifted program. The Assistant Principal insisted he wasn’t any smarter than anybody else, despite the teacher’s efforts to get him tested. The AP had a son the same age, and she was certain they were just alike. Her son ended up in special ed! S was our first child, and we didn’t know any better, or how to argue. I can’t tell you how many times we were told that his abilities were because “you must work with him.” In reality, we did do things to increase his knowledge, but they were at his instigation, not ours. </p>

<p>We were rezoned when he began 2nd grade, and at the end of the first week, the teacher called me and said, “May I ask why this kid isn’t in the Gifted Program.” He did start that year, but it wasn’t really a great program, but it was nice to have affirmation, at least. But we were lucky in having teachers that worked to stimulate him, give him extra responsibilities, allowed him to take projects to the next level. I remember someone asking us once why we didn’t homeschool him, and I said, “But we do!” We just did it after he got home from public school. Public school taught him plenty - perhaps not so much on an academic level. But he loved learning in depth and had a ton of questions, so he was being educated all day long!</p>

<p>He is not bigger than his peers, and was not athletic at all. (Later, we learned it was because of poor eyesight, but unfortunately that went undiagnosed way too long. A long story, but something that taught us how gifted kids can often compensate for weaknesses!) We did put him into sports for social reasons, but at some level, it didn’t work, because he was made to feel even more of a misfit.</p>

<p>We didn’t have a lot of money as he was growing up, but I wish now I would have given him more outside opportunities - camps, lessons, etc. He did have music lessons, and Spanish lessons, and church activities.</p>

<p>To be honest, he didn’t start coming into his own until HS, where he was able to take advanced courses with similar kids, and then college, where he finally was able to be “normal.” He is currently, at 24, living the childhood he never had! :slight_smile: However, he continues to self-educate! His “pleasure reading” is daunting. </p>

<p>What I would do differently - Mainly worked harder to surround him with more kids similar to him. His social skills developed late - he preferred adult company, because he didn’t “get” a lot of what his peers did or said. I let him go that way, because I had younger children and plenty enough to do, and he seemed content. </p>

<p>And I regret not recognizing his eye problems sooner. We assumed his fear of heights, and his inability to hit a baseball, were symptoms of non-athleticism, and he grew up believing that. </p>

<p>We have a friend who homeschooled her child only one year, in 2nd grade, in order to skip 3rd. She did two years in one. That might be an option down the road for your cousin, since he is larger. It will give him a couple years to determine where his social skills stand. Given his intelligence and his size, a year ahead might be best.</p>

<p>Providing a variety of activities is great, even if it includes some things he’s not naturally gifted at. I don’t think it’s a bad thing for a smart kid to struggle once in awhile!</p>

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<p>Few mainstream public school systems have much to support a child like this. Even “gifted” classes are a mixed bag. Think private school, magnet schools or home schooling. Just my experience.</p>

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<p>Lots of kids still skip grades. My son skipped K (he was old enough (we’d changed states) and he knew how to read) and his senior year. We did a lot of things to challenge him. He was in GATE (gifted and talented education) for a while, he took some classes with older kids (algebra as a 6th grader, for example), he went to a private school for a while. It’s a challenge, but a fun one. Really.</p>

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<p>That and the “they all even out by third grade” are the most overused, and most incorrect, statements made to deny the existence of gifted children. I would run as far away from that principal’s school as possible. We spent four years in “regular” school with administrators who thought all kids were gifted and I, for example, was a pushy parent who exaggerated my children’s gifts. In fourth grade, my son brought a book into class each day to read while the teacher was teaching material he already knew while, elsewhere at the school, my first grade daughter was helping her classmates with their worksheets. We left that school and moved my kids to a private school for the gifted – they thrived finding kids like them and teachers who liked them. There was no substitute for being in a school geared towards smart kids. If he can’t do that in K, have him at least go to SIG or JHU CTY during the summers to spend time around intellectual peers. And since he’s 5 years 9 months, why not put him in 1st grade? It’s not really a skip, he’d be the youngest, but not way younger (and you said he was tall for his age so that stigma would be avoided).</p>

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<p>I too have a 7yr old that is this way. Currently in 1st grade, was not so great as he was not challenged at all. Since he was bored he attention to what they wanted was lacking. They chose to focus on having him become more organized, needless to say they failed. Being the youngest of 4 children I have been down this road before. </p>

<p>For boys it is slightly challenging because they may not have the maturity to skip grade. But many will move ahead in subjects, particularly math when they hit 6th grade. This was offered to my D but I was not comfortable with a 12 yr old in HS. A G &T teacher worked very well for her. </p>

<p>I am enrolling my 7 yr old in enrichment math and science for summer, hoping this will help.</p>

<p>S1 I did put in private school after 6th grade, this was the best for him, he will now go to HS.</p>

<p>It is important to be involved with the school, inquire about gifted and talented program.</p>

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<p>Agree with Washdad - Magnet schools are a great option if avail.</p>

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<p>At the urging of our son’s K teacher, we moved to a school district that had a free-standing gifted school for the highest testing kids, along with individual gifted classrooms in many other schools spread out around the city. We were lucky to have this available within the public school system, and it was the best thing we could have done. </p>

<p>Really unusual kids like this can manage in a regular school or classroom, but it takes a lot of work on the parents’ part. More important, the kids run the risk of just coasting through school (they can do things effortlessly that other kids really have to work at), or becoming bored (which can cause some kids to behave badly), or becoming the nerdy social outcast. If they’re around other brainiacs, these kids get an appropriate education without feeling that they’re terribly special. </p>

<p>I would encourage your aunt and uncle to seek out programs that your cousin would qualify for, and not to be embarassed about it. (Many people feel like it’s bragging to advocate for their child in this way; I remember how shocked we were when the K teacher called us in to have this little chat about our S’s needs being different from other kids’.)</p>

<p>I second the chess recommendation. Great social and mental aspects to playing competitively - my kids had great fun at the tournaments. If there’s not a team at his school, start one! And all kids should be encouraged to play sports for at least awhile; they might fall in love with something that surprises the parents.</p>

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<p>For us private school did not work at all. We ended up placing our S in charter school that does ability grouping and subject acceleration. It has helped tremendously, but still was not enough. What I would love to do is to home school for half day and then have him attend the school for 2-3 hours a day. Unfortunately, our school does not allow that. Still searching…</p>

<p>I would definately advocate for grade skip inot 1st for your cousin.</p>

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<p>mstee:<br>
He had a group of friends that were about five months older than him and went onto kindergarten this past year. They just changed the age cutoff in RI from December (his birthday) to September (effectively banning 4 year olds in kindergarten). You can test in, and that’s what the parents of a smart little September birthday girl friend of his did. His preschool suggested not pushing him into kindergarten because of an inabilty to handle challenges by other kids, and they say he’s come out of his shell a bit.</p>

<p>The fine motor skills are pretty good. He writes a lot: more than I ever was willing to, even in first grade. His writing mostly coherant (85%) to adults and he is a very good speller. He makes books with about a sentence or two per page, illustrates them and staples them together (him mom might help with the stapling part: I don’t know). He started making books about abcs and counting, he had a series about an owl character, and later he did books about volcanoes and the solar system (I’m an Astrophysics major, so they told me a lot about that one). If I had to guess, I’d say the books about ten pages on average. The books are a riot to read, and I saw a few at Easter. He lists the “other books in the series” on the back (they’re all titles he’s made).</p>

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<p>None of my kids were in the ballpark of your cousin–but they have gone to school with a few. I think the decision of what to do depends on a couple main factors–one being the emotional/social maturity of your cousin and the other being the availability of alternate programs in their area.</p>

<p>My youngest I actually “held back” as he was going to be the very youngest in class and was very big physically for his age (off the growth charts). He was advanced academically (ie could read before K, good concept of elementary level math through about 4th grade level) however, socially he needed to learn how to get along in a group and how to sit still in a school environment. Worked out fine for him.</p>

<p>For your cousin, perhaps the parents could get some advice from a professional? </p>

<p>If there is a private day school in their area, it might be a good choice. My DIL teaches in such a school and has some very bright students–with those she does a lot of extra studies, altered assignments, independent study/research, etc.</p>

<p>Some of the kids mine were with in public school who were very bright had a difficult time socially until high school when many went to the NC School of Math and Science. The ones who were able to combine other interests (as other posters have mentioned) such as band, sports, drama seemed to fair better socially and be viewed as more well-rounded --plus just had another level on which to connect with classmates.</p>

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<p>My D was a young gifted child who hid her abilities to blend in. When the Kindergarten teacher told me she was having trouble recognizing her letters, I told her that she had been reading since she was 2 1/2. That teacher kindly made a daily time for my D to sit in the big rocking chair and read the class a book. She was a really nice teacher. There were better and worse ones through the years. One actually put a slow, older, non-enlish–speaking kid with my D as a ‘buddy’ as some kind of “enrichment” strategy. My D was 7 and this kid was 11. To me, that’s enrichment of the older kid, not mine. We found things for my D to expand into, like writing and theater. She was able to ‘publish’ poetry in the district’s literary magazine in first grade, and she began to act professionally in first grade, as well. She was put into various gifted programs in different districts over the years, including writing/theater arts, academics, math and verbal programs. Some were great, some were a waste of time. I’ve known kids that were skipped who had trouble when everyone reached puberty and they didn’t. Sometimes skipping is the right thing to do, and sometimes it just causes more problems. What good is skipping a grade level if the next grade is still far behind what the kid is doing at home? Now that she’s a junior in hs, she does well in school, but not nearly as well as many kids on this board. I guess you can call that “evening out”. I would encourage anyone with a gifted child who is concerned about them fitting in socially to find a regular-kid venue for the child to shine in–like video games or baseball–to ensure that he/she can interact with other kids normally and not stick out so much.</p>

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<p>Well, my son sounds like this kids older twin brother. I would highly recommend the parents try to find a school that understands what gifted kids need to keep their love of learning alive. The worst they could do would be to leave him in a school that does not have teachers or a principal who know how different gifted kids are from normal bright kids.</p>

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<p>Wendy Mouse—your story about the home-made books brought back a memory. When my D was about 4-5 she made a book on some computer program. Her language was hilarious. We came upon that book a few weeks ago and had a good laugh. One page was a picture of a castle with the caption “Oh, look! A castle! I think it is full of a princess!”</p>

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<p>I don’t have experience with this program, but it seems like it could suit your cousin. Have his parents look over the website. Perhaps the free consulting and online community would be helpful for them.</p>