Snipers shoot 11 Police officers during Dallas protest

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I was told that (since banning certain weapons isn’t really what is wanted, from someone in the middle of the road) that more training before people have guns is one of the answers. Well, the Dallas shooter had plenty of training, specialized training in fact, specific to his mission. He was so well trained that he knew how to plan an attack that even the police would have a hard time stopping - shooting from elevated, multiple positions. I’m sure we’re all glad he had that training.

The Dallas shooter also had no criminal record and no official mental illness history. He was once accused of sexual harassment in the military, told he “needed mental help” but no conviction was on his record. He was given either a general discharge or less-than-honorable discharge (not clear which yet), the latter of which does carry some limitations, but nothing that would show up on a background check for a gun. Maybe that should go down on your list of things to expand in background checks, anything below honorable discharge?

I see nothing in some previous suggestions that would have stopped this racist cop-hater from obtaining a gun.

》》 Why did a whole army of cops, dressed for battle, need to be at the protest in the first place?《《

Just let the protesters have free rein, I suppose. They are only using rocks and fireworks to fight police, so no harm, no foul. Let them stop highways. And btw, PG, police have worn riot gear in many of these protests regardless of people open-carrying guns or not, so don’t try to twist the facts to show that the guns caused all that. I’m glad to see that you still support one right that our Constitution gave us.

And since anecdotes are the key here, my parent(s) and I have been stopped by cops several times and they have always been even tempered and reasonable. One time several years ago, my mom and I were driving across the Southwest in the middle of the night, and we got stopped outside of a city as we drove through. He claimed it was because of a license plate light that was out, but judging from the questions he was asking I think he was trying to make sure we were sober.

Another time was the first time my parents and I visited the college I currently attend - again, late at night, coming into town. We got pulled over because my dad apparently didn’t signal long enough before changing lanes. The cop gave him a warning, then wanted to know why were there, we explained that we were visiting the college, which prompted a brief conversation about how good their basketball team was and how his brother went there.

》》 And the prevalence of guns among civilians makes their job harder, not easier.《《

Ah, the evil guns again. If that is indeed a huge problem, then why do a majority of cops support civilians carrying guns concealed unless they are felons or mentally ill?

"In addition, the survey asked, “On a scale of one to five — one being low and five being high — how important do you think legally-armed citizens are to reducing crime rates overall?”

Three quarters of you (75 percent) answered either four or five, with more than 50 percent answering five."

https://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legislation-Law-Enforcement/articles/6186552-Police-Gun-Control-Survey-Are-legally-armed-citizens-the-best-solution-to-gun-violence/

I suppose you know more abut gun violence than 15,000 law enforcers, PG. That is impressive.

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All my interactions with police have been courteous on both sides. (And one time, I was stopped to make sure I wasn’t a car thief!. So many middle-aged white women are car thieves). But I said, “I know you are only doing your job. I respect that.” He said he was ‘sorry’ in return. Of course, I had no gun in the car. In this state, if you are transporting guns to a shooting range for example, they have to be in the trunk, in a case, unloaded.

Police have one of the most dangerous jobs in the country. Maybe THE most dangerous if accidental deaths are excluded. The protesters need to address the crime in their neighborhoods, the gang killings, the drug dealing. THAT is where the danger lies.

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@albert69 I do not think BLM characterizes the issue this way, in terms of the color of the cop.

First of all, BLM is not a specific organization with a leader and a platform, it is a lot of different people in different areas with different leaders, and no leaders. But i have never heard or read of any of them referring to white cops rather than just police in general.

Have you?

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“Maybe the police are in riot gear @emilybee because the last time that they weren’t, 5 of them ended up dead.”

By a person who was not a protester. If the police hadn’t been there none of them would have been shot or killed.

The Dallas police chief opening has said the police don’t get the support they should. There are reasons for that.

“But I have to put myself in their shoes. I totally get why they approach my car from behind with a hand on their holster. I know I’m not going to cause any trouble, but how the heck do they know?”

But that is the thing - why don’t they approach a person who they pull over for speeding or a broken tail light or whatever minor infraction with the approach that the person they are pulling over is not a criminal and not going to harm them instead of vice versa? Most people aren’t criminals and aren’t going to pull a gun out and kill the officer. If they can’t do that they shouldn’t be a police officer, IMO.

When they stop acting in the manner that everyone is a potential criminal they would get more support. But they are just getting worse. How ridiculous is it that 3 cops in riot gear confronted one very innocent looking lady protester because she was standing in the middle of a street? Do you honestly believe they felt threatened?

It’s like the Scottish police chief incredulously saying to American police -"you’d kill someone because they threw a rock!!!

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@emilybee Maybe the police got tired of being pelted with fireworks and other debris by protestors. In terms of that picture, you have no idea what has transpired before or what is behind her. I agree that many of the protestors were there peacefully , but then there are also opportunists that ruin and tarnish any valid complaints these people are attempting to get heard. Many of us on this thread are open minded enough to realize that and don’t make sweeping generalizations regarding a whole group of people.

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I have lived in Dallas for 30 years. I have NEVER seen anyone walking around with a rifle or gun in their hands. I have never personally witnessed someone openly carrying a firearm. I know that during a few demonstrations on the actual issue of open carry, there have been some incidents where people have brought their guns with them to the demonstrations to make their point. I don’t doubt that there are people who do open carry. But it is not the wild west here; it is very UNcommon to see citizens bearing arms. If I saw a person holding a rifle up in the air, I would assume they were about to start shooting, and I’d be fleeing the area for sure. This is NOT THE NORM on any average day in Dallas, Texas.

I haven’t been pulled over in over 26 years, so I have no personal experience to speak of in how cops approach people. I have been with DH a few times when he got pulled over for speeding, and they were always polite and matter of fact. I even wrote of our experience in West Texas where two young troopers changed our flat tire when it blew out on the highway. Couldn’t have been nicer guys. I am Hispanic, and my DH is a white male, so take that for what it is.

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The point is that they only protest after a specific kind of shooting, with a specific lineup of races. I saw on the news that protesters were calling cops “pigs” and saying “End White Supremecy” http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/29/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-pigs-in-a-blanket-fry-em-like-bacon-video/.

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I doubt 9% of police officers die of homicide (with another 9% dying of natural causes on the job), which is the record of a well known but very exclusive job in the US.

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You all have your opinions and I have mine.

If the police feel they don’t get the support they deserve there are reasons why.

That many departments are now sending their officers to places like Scotland tells me they are recognizing there are problems with their policing tactics.

Maybe I’m crazy but I don’t want militarized police forces in my country.

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Meanwhile dozens of people are shot in Chicago and other major cities across the country each weekend. Many are killed. There are no statements of alarm from governors, presidents or mayors. There are no protests to stop the violence.

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Huh. Taxi drivers have the most dangerous job in America, if you’re only looking at the homicide rate:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/28/charted-the-20-deadliest-jobs-in-america/

Of course, if you consider all causes of death on the job, police officers are #15 on the list, right below ground maintenance workers and way behind loggers, fishermen, and pilots.

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Being a taxi driver is more dangerous than being a cop: http://time.com/4326676/dangerous-jobs-america/

The vast majority of cops do not wear riot gear and the vast majority of cops will never have their lives be in danger. Yes, this individual opened fire on cops and several died. Horrible but that doesn’t mean that the solution is for our police to be increasingly militarized. It reaffirms the myth that cops are in a war. They’re not. The streets are not a war zone and I don’t particularly want us to go down that route. I can’t think of a police state off the top of my head that I’d particularly want to live in.

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I hate to keep responding to your posts @albert69 because i always picture my 18 year old daughter when I do, but none of that says anything about black cops. They call them pigs? Is that some kind of whites-only term? No, it’s a derogatory term for cops. “End White Supremacy” is a statement, a wish for a system that doesn’t favor white people in myriad ways. It doesn’t say anything about white cops either.

Where do you live, what media do you follow, that you have never seen any “statements of alarm from governors, presidents or mayors” or protests to stop the violence? I see them all the time. In Chicago’s case, literally from the “governor, president AND mayor”.

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@emilybee my own personal experiences with cops (and I have many, I was engaged to one and with him for 2+ rough early years of my life) would make me very sacred to be black around them too. The things I heard them say hanging out together (with me, a white person who they felt they didn’t much need to edit their speech with…I hope, maybe it was worse when I wasn’t around) are truly horrifying. I often wondered how they were able to get and keep their jobs in a police force with extensive screening and training. Some didn’t, in fact, but most did.

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@romanigypsyeyes I don’t believe that police need riot gear in most situations, and rarely is it used in most situations, but there are situations where it is warranted IMO.

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Fine, it’s Black Lives vs All Cops. Who only protest when a black man is killed by a white cop.

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“How ridiculous is it that 3 cops in riot gear confronted one very innocent looking lady protester because she was standing in the middle of a street? Do you honestly believe they felt threatened?”

Would you have felt differently if it had been a physically large / intimidating black man with a menacing look? Seems like you’re doing the stereotyping you decry – oh, she’s an innocent looking woman, she must be safe. You can’t have it both ways.

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“The point is that they only protest after a specific kind of shooting, with a specific lineup of races…”

So what?

Is there anything stopping you from starting a protest over those left out? Go out and organize if you think there should be more attention paid to the left out groups. There is also nothing stopping you from protesting against the protesters. Go start a counter protest movement.

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“By a person who was not a protester. If the police hadn’t been there none of them would have been shot or killed.”

I do hope you are not blaming the victims - the Dallas cops - for simply being present at a place where a large scale protest was taking place, as is their duty.

“But that is the thing - why don’t they approach a person who they pull over for speeding or a broken tail light or whatever minor infraction with the approach that the person they are pulling over is not a criminal and not going to harm them instead of vice versa? Most people aren’t criminals and aren’t going to pull a gun out and kill the officer. If they can’t do that they shouldn’t be a police officer, IMO.”

It’s easy to do that if your patrol beat involves the kind of Nice White Suburbia where I live (and I suspect you do too) and the most crime you will be dealing with is speeding, or maybe shoplifting or minor property damage or somesuch. It’s a little bit more difficult when you’re patrolling the South Side of Chicago.

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These death rates are small compared to President of the United States. Out of 43* presidents under the Constitution, 4 died of homicide, and another 4 died of natural causes on the job.

*President Barack Obama is usually listed as #44, but President Grover Cleveland’s two non-consecutive terms result in him being counted twice in the 44 (as #22 and #24; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States ).