The riot gear in Baton Rouge was overdone and that photo with the woman in the sundress is wonderful.
Police can’t help but worry that the situation may turn into something like Dallas, from the protesters or others, or become more violent like the demonstrations in Minneapolis had been. But there had been no “rioting” in Baton Rouge, just people walking along a road with some of them arrested for maybe crossing out of the shoulder.
Showing up all armored may seem prudent to a police commander but it serves to dehumanize the police a little from the point of view of outsiders. I hope it doesn’t escalate anything.
It bothers me too that some here have characterized the protesters, or the “bad” protesters, as being from out of town. Why does it matter? If something bothers you so much that you travel far to make a statement about something that is entirely respectable. The thought that all protesters are just there to cause trouble, or like to cause trouble, or like to travel far to cause trouble it misleading. Unfortunately there’s always a small percentage who will cause trouble whether in this case or during a holiday or at a sports event. Does that make all sports addendees troublemakers?
But you just credited the police for nothing bad happening!
“The protest was peaceful, they abided by all laws, there was relatively minimal disruption to traffic, etc. I credit the police with being there to manage it all. It was absolutely their place to be there to ensure nothing bad happened.”
How about crediting the protesters, too? This notion that protesters are going to run amok and turn violent for the mere fact that they are protesting it incredibly disturbing to me. That my fellow Americans view their fellow Americans as mere thugs if not for police presence makes me sick to my stomach.
@romanigypsyeyes yes, I’m glad he spoke from his heart. Some seem to think that the only reason you come into contact with police is because you are up to no good. All blacks from every walk of life has a story to tell.
“I saw on CNN this morning that Castile had been stopped 52 times by Police between 2012 and 2016. Think about that. I guess driving while black is not a made up.”
Chris Rock has started video recording each time he is stopped.
Not calling anyone a punk or lowlife, maybe a recidivist? Eric Garner was selling loose cigarettes. He had been arrested for this before. Mayor DeBlasio had directed NYPD to crack down on this activity. When police tried to arrest him, he refused to cooperate. Things went bad from there. But not the best poster child for minding your own business.
I’m white and drove minvans for 22 years, and have been pulled over multiple times. Always for a reason, like speeding (guilty as charged) or a headlight (didn’t know that, thanks for pointing it out) out or a turn signal not working. (That one made me mad, it was an intermittent problem that we had been trying to resolve for a while. But I still had to pay the ticket.) My southern training always kicks in at the point I’m pulled over, and the ma’ams and sirs start flowing. But I’ve never had a rude officer. They have been authoritative, not authoritarian in my view. If you have problems with authority figures, you’d have problems with them. But not rude. Very disciplined and formal, almost as if they have been trained how to handle these kinds of citizen interactions.
It’s hard to find a safer, whiter neighborhood than Ballwin, MO, where Officer Michal Flamion was shot last Friday. Above average education and income, something like 80% of families are 2-parent households. The usual drugs, break-ins, etc., but mostly a quiet place. Until last week.
Sorry I can’t edit the above post for some reason and I hit enter too soon.
My guess would be that it’s someone who is disgruntled about a decision rather than an attack on cops. St. Joseph is a very small town but I don’t know anything about what crime, etc is like there.
An instructor at my Megacorp ethics training mentioned that people who break big rules often get caught for breaking small rules. Timothy McVeigh being the prime example. “But there I was, speeding in the left lane with the criminals” is how she put her experience of getting a ticket. So that is one reason police pull people over. If you are ignoring the rules on traffic safety, what else are you doing. Me, not much. The car never smelled like alcohol or weed, and I didn’t have any pill bottles lying around. But I understand why they check.
"It bothers me too that some here have characterized the protesters, or the “bad” protesters, as being from out of town. Why does it matter? If something bothers you so much that you travel far to make a statement about something that is entirely respectable. "
Who did that? I made no statement that the protesters bussed in to the protest in my area were “bad” or more prone to causing trouble. I did it more to explain that this was a fairly large scale protest involving bus loads of people, not 3 people w picket signs. I have no problem whatsoever with peaceful protests and if people come from far away, whether volunteer or paid, I couldn’t care less.
@romanigypsyeyes - Check the Freep. Looks like multiple people were shot (some are saying three dead?/) but the policeman is listed as “wounded” (shot in the arm). The others who were shot were court employees.
You’re probably right and it’s “just” someone who is disgruntled. yeah, right - “just” another shooting.
Edited to add: The policeman is okay. The shooter is dead as are two court bailiffs.
As to Dallas protesters, many might have been bused in because they are from out of town, or to simplify things for them in terms of finding parking, etc. I have no problem with that. Most people who actually do live in Dallas don’t live downtown anyway, and it can be rather intimidating getting around in that area if you are not familiar with it. I know I’d much rather be driven there than try to navigate it on my own.
Oh, please! Have you ever worked in retail? Because if you believe the general public won’t get rude and unruly if they gather in large numbers with no visible police presence, you must have very limited exposure to the general public.
One of the problems very early on after the Michael Brown shooting was that the police tried to keep their presence low key, and the Quik Trip burned. Oops, wrong convenience store. After the video came out, the “right” store burned, and by then the police presence was over the top. When they backed off, more businesses burned. So yes, I do believe a very visible police presence is absolutely required to keep a group or protestors, who are angry by definition, from getting unruly. And I appreciate the men and women willing to do that job.
Some police presence may be needed for traffic control and similar issues. Sometimes, it may be needed in case counter-protesters appear, and “hot” people on either side attempt to incite a riot. Sometimes, the protesters’ cause is not popular among those with violent tendencies, and the police presence may be needed more to protect the protesters than anyone else.
It did not help that, at the time, the LAPD both was understaffed and had lost almost all respect from citizens, including both for ineffectiveness at stopping crime and for abusing black people. Hence, when the criminals (which certainly were not limited to black people) took advantage of the situation to start looting, the LAPD’s inadequacies became glaringly obvious.
@MomofJandL Actually I attend/work large police-free events several times a year. With hundreds of people, anyway, up to around 2000 (small music festivals - not Bonnaroo/Woodstock 99 type mega festivals). No riots yet, in the 15 or so years I’ve been attending.
The only time we have to have a police presence onsite is if alcohol is being sold or the event is significantly larger than that. Most often we have neither so no police, visible or otherwise.
Re: police presence at peaceful protests. Even a non-violent protest can turn ugly when a small group begins to stir trouble. In 1999, the SPD really dropped the ball, as this Wiki article states by completely trusting the organizers.
The 200 Eugene Anarchists etc. making up the “black bloc” mentioned in the Wiki quote (“black” was not their race) were just a tiny group among the 40,000 or so protesters, but the organizers could not control them, and the cops were simply not prepared. Then the cops began pepper-spraying people at random, and the infamous battle of Seattle began. The chief of the SPD resigned as the result.
^^^^I think when large crowds gather to PROTEST something rather than simply to attend a function, that can really change the dynamics and increase the potential for problems. And it’s not always an issue with those protesting, but with possible push back from counter protesters. If the DPD had not established a presence at this event, and something had gone wrong, if any of the protesters had been injured, you can bet there would be CC members all over this thread criticizing them for not deeming these protesters worthy of protection.
