so I just concluded another shouting match with my mother five minutes ago

Parent Cafe
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<p>I really shouldn’t wash dirty linen in public, but I was just curious how normal it is to have severe disagreements with your parent(s) every two weeks. Is it also normal to have an argument that escalates so loudly the neighbours in our apartment can hear? </p>

<p>Is it also a really really bad sign if said parent(s) tell(s) you you’ll regret it in forty years and say(s) that wish you had listened to their advice?</p>

<p>It just seems these arguments escalate from nothing… this one started particularly innocuously with meal plans, where upon somewhere in the conversation my mother decided to bring up a long story about the finer points of protocol when lunching with colleagues and friends. After several requests and attempts at cutting the lecture short (admittedly because I had been in the middle of a rather interesting MSN convo with someone and wanted to get back to it), the accusation knives were brought out. “Do you care more about your friends or about your mother?” etc. etc. A battle about proper etiquette and communication between child, parent and society ensued. </p>

<p>Now I admit I have a lot of flaws, and I’m not the most socialable person ever – perhaps I do need a lesson in social etiquette. And I also feel immensely guilty because my mother has worked herself to exhaustion these past seven years since my father left us. But at times, I almost feel like she’s rather comparable to Mrs. Bennet from Pride and Prejudice, or Polonius from Hamlet – at one point I told her flat out that I didn’t find any value to the advice she was giving me because it sounded so canned, upon which she fumed and told me that if I didn’t find any value to what she was saying, she might as well disown(!) me. [I can hope she only said that out of anger.] I’m also relating this from a biased perspective as you may understand – nevertheless I find it very hard to agree with her at times.</p>

<p>So well. I figured that asking a forum filled with parents was more reliable than relating any of this to my friends. But I don’t know what the parameters for a “normal” child-parent relationship are – we’re definitely not a traditional family and such. It’s definitely inappropriate for me to ask who was right and who was wrong, but I want to know if these spates of arguments are beyond normal in both frequency and intensity, and whether I should be more concerned about them.</p>

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<p>Well, yes, fighting with parents is normal. How old are you? What else is going on in your life? Are you a graduating senior? Are you making a big transition in your life right now? Are you an adult child living at home? The answers to all of these questions could be the iceberg over which you are currently fighting. If you are about to undergo a big transition, try to deal with the bigger underlying causes of these arguments. Understand the emotional and psychological stimuli that BOTH you and your mother are reacting to. For you, it’s stressful to be starting a new life, and for your mom, especially as it sounds as though your family is just the two of you, she could be worrying about sending you off on your own, even though that is a normal thing to do. If you are not about to change your life, then try to back off from each other. Families go through phases. In any case, when things calm down, I recommend that you sit down with her in a peaceful setting and try to talk things out to hear what each other is really concerned about. Certainly it sounds like it is more than knives and proper eating etiquette… Just know, though, that she really loves you and she probably won’t disown you. As you know, sometimes we say things our of anger and desperation and we really don’t mean many of the nasty things that pop out.</p>

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<p>they occur every couple of weeks because you just don’t understand her perspective. You will when you have been working for a while and also have a teen. The woman has been working very hard.</p>

<p>You know, if you just looked her in the eye and acknowledged what she said, and actually tried out whatever she suggested, she would get off your back. Your mom has your best interests at heart. Just recognize that, listen and look her in the eye when she speaks to you, and respond graciously, like, "“why do you think that?” like you really want to know, then actually listen and be willing to try what she says, and MEAN IT, and then she won’t mind your getting back on MSN. </p>

<p>Parents are not a mystery. Your mom is stressed and would like you to show a little appreciation and interest in what she counsels you to do. </p>

<p>I know you want to be independent. So does my D, and she responds a wee bit like you. She however, must be more naturally tactful or whatever, because while I do resent her online time, it’s not to the point that your mom must. </p>

<p>Just look like you are willing to listen and apply your mom’s suggestions, and things will improve A LOT around your house.</p>

<p>And don’t worry, the neighbors have their own battles with their teens and other family members. They may or may not have been as loud as your family’s, but they had or have them. That’s completely normal.</p>

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<p>Good post! My hunch is that you’re not alone. Both kids and parents generally love one another without reservation, however, that doesn’t mean they communicate well. The shouting is a loud cry of frustration at the inability to reach one another at a meaningful level.</p>

<p>I’m sure it’s not just an age thing and that there are adults with whom you have better/less heated discussions.</p>

<p>My advice is stay close to your mother emotionally. Give her time to share her thoughts and listen attentively. You won’t always agree and that’s OK. It’s your gift of attention and respect. Soon you’ll be off on your own making major decisions re: career and such. No doubt she has mixed emotions re: your departure and wonders if she’s done everything she should in order to prepare you for that independance.</p>

<p>It’s so easy to enter conflict and so much harder to reach out and find common ground. Hopefully, a small change in your behavior will be accompanied by a change in hers as well.</p>

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<p>Other posters are so correct. Such arguments are common. Yes we understand you have a biased perception. But I would word it that you may be arguing things that you have a very limited perspective on. You have the disadvantage of youth. While “all your life” you may have believed something, you are so young that all your life doesn’t add up to much time. You may have very strong opinions, but try to think logically, that those opinions are based on only a small bit of info.
As far as her “canned answers”; a child becoming an adult, often doesn’t realize the parent, when the same age as the child, probably used the same reasons, excuses, and explanations to their parent. Do you ever say- “I’m a man now”, or “I want to be treated more like an adult” ? Do you ever say “you don’t understand” or “all my friends do” ? I heard those arguments a thousand times from my son while in high school. I used those arguments a thousand times when I was in high school.
Most arguments in our house related to giving him more privileges (what he thought was more “adult”). What he didn’t see due to his limited perspective was that I wasn’t staying out until 3 a.m. then going to work(one example). His mom and I had to work to pay mortgage, elec, groceries, car, etc., all the things a family needs. He finally saw that I didn’t have those privileges either, due to MY responsibilities. I once offered to him to treat him like an adult. No restrictions. I then asked how he’d be paying his adult share of our family’s bills. This caught him by surprise. His idea of adulthood was living in our home, supported by us, and with full privileges with little or no financial responsibility. He declined my offer. The general rule of thumb in our household is that my son is a man when he is self-supporting. He’s not a man at 16, 18, or 25, if 'ol Dad is still paying his bills.</p>

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<p>galoisien, thanks for posting. Our family isn’t much into yelling, but my oldest D is going to college in the fall as well and I can relate to your mom a little bit. While my D is very accomplished and wonderful (practically perfect :)) I do find myself trying to send her out in to the world as “put together” as possible. When I see her doing something silly like not knowing how to iron something properly, or how check the oil in her car, I find myself frustrated. While I sometimes express it to her in no uncertain terms, I am increasingly aware that I’m frustrated at myself, and a little embarrassed that I didn’t teach her do these things, and I only have a little time left. This is silly, I know. She can learn these things later, and from someone else, but I do feel a sense of urgency to finish my parenting job so that she will have all the tools she needs to survive in the world, and honestly, because any skills she lacks may reflect back on my weak parenting. However, I’m not sure ironing is as valued a skill as it was to my mom, so maybe I’ll be off the hook there. </p>

<p>Maybe your mom is expressing her sadness over the loss of you being around in the same way I am. We’re only flawed humans. Go for a walk with her. She will smile for days.</p>

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<p>Wow, you sound very mature. Yes, believe me, the arguments are both normal and very much a part of making the transition to thinking for yourself. Your mom sounds very much like all of us moms. We are like mama bear who want to protect her cub at all costs. However, it is just as important for us to realize that you need to make this transition, and yes, you will make some errors–we all did–but hopefully they won’t be major and lasting, and you will learn from them.</p>

<p>It helps me when my son tells me he understands and respects what I am saying, but he cannot stand my “constant lectures”. When I digress into these, he says he tunes me out. So, if you can just tell your mom that you do respect her advice and experience, and that you will do your best, perhaps you will get back to your friends sooner. </p>

<p>Good luck, and as a parent, it also helps me to hear that I am not alone :)</p>

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<p>Galosien, I’m sorry that you’re going through this, but the first thing I thought was to wonder if you treat your parents in the same less-than-respectful manner that you often post. If you bring that argumentative, I know everything, and I’ve got to beat you mentality to your relationships in real life. I believe I actually asked you that on another thread and you didn’t answer. So I ask you again. Do you treat your dealings with your mother as if you were trying to win a debate? Are you respectful in your dealings? I’ve found with my own kids that it’s often how something is said to me, rather than what is said that sets off fights. I have one daughter who is calm, respectful and pleasant. She is 18 1/2 and we have never had a fight although we often disagree. I have a younger one who is a know-it-all and we fight constantly even though we actually do agree. I just don’t like the way she speaks and it often escalates. Give it some thought.</p>

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<p>galoisien: it’s already been said, but I’ll repeat (because that’s what mothers do). </p>

<p>“We’ve” been there. “We’ve” done that. “We” have regrets. “We” hope to keep our kids from having the same regretful results. As adults who have been around the block (in my case several times), “we” can see around the corners that you are nearing. Our instinct is to protect you. </p>

<p>And we’re sad that you are moving on. Without us 24/7. “We” were the ones who birthed you, cared for you until wee hours, rocked you, cradled you, tended to you. And now you’re going forward without us. “We” will not be able to put a band-aid on when you skin your knee. Or do a thing for you when your heart might get broken. This makes “us” sad.</p>

<p>My D & I had a hard time during her senior year. I called it the ‘push-me-pull-you’ year (I don’t need you, where are you going? Leave me alone, hey, how come you’re not here?). What a year. Heartbreaking. I’m sure for her too.</p>

<p>Now she’s been away 2 years and we’re finally getting to the ‘comfortable’ state again where we can talk without yelling (both of us), and I’m learning to ‘listen’ more, and learning to try not to fix everything from 3000 miles away. </p>

<p>Try hard to be kind to your mother, I am certain she wants nothing but the best for you. Somehow remind her that she raised a fine citizen of the world and that you’ll carry that with you forever. That’s what we want to know.</p>

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<p>You show great insight so I think you know why the arguments…and yes it is normal, especially during the approach to freshman year. You have your own stresses about leaving home, going to college, making friends and succeeding. Your mother is stressed about losing you, about whether she has prepared you well enough, about the end of a big chapter in her life. No surprise things might be a little volatile right now. I had to laugh about your wanting to get back to an msn convo at the same time as she chose to impart some knowledge; it sounds very familiar! Try and make some time for your Mom and tell her you know how hard she has worked to bring you up well. You are very eloquent on paper, write to her if you can’t say it to her face, and thank her.</p>

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<p>Galoisen, if you can learn how to curb the issues now, you are so way ahead of me. I’ve had the problems for years. My mother and MIL are both difficult. Not much can be done about that. I am finally getting through my thick head, that I can control my interactions, and am slowly learning to do so. Congrats at coming to this point so much earlier. Good luck in coming to a balance. I have a lot of respect for where you have come with this issue.</p>

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<p>I imagine that your relationship with her will improve as you grow, mature, and move out. Even if your mother doesn’t stay the same, you will surely see her differently and/or learn how to humor her, which is really what you should do.</p>

<p>Until then, you just need to be able to control YOUR end of the interactions. A screaming fight isn’t possible when only one person is screaming; that person will quiet down if the other is calm.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the responses … well, after a few hours we’re all laughing and smiling again, as usual. Fierce arguing is sort of like having a high on drugs – not that it’s any way pleasurable – but there’s a state you get put into that clouds your judgment, and some things only become clearer after the chemicals subside.</p>

<p>In response to franglish’s question, I’m a graduating senior going OOS. I do have one sister who’s about a year and half younger than me.</p>

<p>To me, I thought the biggest obstacle was admissions and financial aid so reflecting (with the aid of this thread) I have suddenly realised how I haven’t truly seen it from my mother’s perspective, as she was probably trying to relate her concerns. The internet is a funny thing in terms of the generation gap … I’ve settled a lot of things (placement tests, etc.) and asked a lot of questions on the internet and through facebook, whereas a lot of things she was getting through the mail were new to her. On the other hand, I do know she has a lot of experience that I don’t have. A lot of it has to deal with how she experienced college in my birth country, and later as an adult student here – so at times I feel that the experience isn’t translating.</p>

<p>I do try to acknowledge what she says, with eye contact. But for me it’s hard to endure the hour-long lectures (or it seems an hour to me anyway). At some point my instinct is just to say, “But I’ve heard all of this already!” and go back and do whatever I was interrupted in. And my reaction is to fidget uncomfortably whenever I hear a remark that begins with, “You know, the secret to life is…”</p>

<p>I don’t intentionally try to cause disrespect, though realise I haven’t been acting my best. I have been unbearably self-centred about it I suppose; whenever I hear a lecture on (what I feel is) a particularly uninteresting topic, my gut reaction is to think, “here we go again…” and not realise there is a certain catharsis for her too. I suppose it’s just like how posting this thread was a catharsis too, and writing out my thoughts as I go.</p>

<p>younghoss: The main problem for me is not so much the privileges as her lectures. The only privilege (that I can recall at this moment) that we’ve been arguing on is my ability to walk to places whenever she’s unable to drive me there (I don’t have a car). I haven’t tried to assert my age so much. In fact I’m rather surprised by the fact myself that I’m 18 – I still feel rather immature, and I don’t act like how I used to think I would be when I reached the age of 18, a perception which no doubt was influenced by the media [cue textbook covers and the O.C.]. However, sometimes I just think she’s being overprotective – what’s going to happen to me if I walk three miles home each night from the local university library? </p>

<p>She’s a very intelligent woman, but sometimes the examples she uses make her sound so misinformed, especially when she cites pop psychology or modern myths that have been disproven. Now zoosermom, I certainly don’t treat my mother like a debate opponent, or at least I haven’t been wanting to. Yet sometimes I can’t stand it when I’m hearing (what I think is) a flawed argument; when I think a point she’s making doesn’t make sense, I feel compelled to interject. Now, I was just about to type, “at times I think she’s resistant to correction,” but I also realise that sounding exasperated, throwing my hands up and rolling my eyes probably hasn’t been aiding the reception of a correction very well. I suppose my reaction has been, “Mom, you’re just citing a flawed example again…” I try my best to respect my mother – but at times it just seems really difficult to take some of my mother’s advice seriously. I do realise however that parents aren’t superhuman (a realisation “helped” along by any divorce).</p>

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<p>Just another word about moms…I find that as each of my kids has been about to launch, I all of a sudden realize all the things I haven’t taught them yet…like the finer points of protocol, for instance. :slight_smile: I drive them absolutely batty with all the “you must know this” things that I seem to come up with.</p>

<p>We aren’t yellers in our house, but some families are. I don’t think it’s right or wrong, really; it’s just a different style of arguing. Some people might not yell but they might say really nasty things quietly. Others are “good” at arguing and can do it rationally.</p>

<p>In 3 months this will all be behind you. Try to have patience with your mom, and I hope she can have patience with you, too.</p>

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<p>galoisien, sounds pretty normal to me, especially as you get ready to leave home to go to an OOS school. I have 16 year olds and an almost 23 year old. Surprisingly, the older my oldest gets, the smarter he thinks his Dad and I are. :wink: (The parents of older kids will understand my comment, and hopefully you will, too.)</p>

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<p>", I was just about to type, “at times I think she’s resistant to correction,” but I also realise that sounding exasperated, "</p>

<p>It didn’t sound exasperated, it sounded arrogant and obnoxious. How does your sister get along with your mom? I think that you have a lot of anger (maybe even rage) because of what your father did and I suspect you take some of that out on mom because she’s the one actually present. I’m not saying your mom can’t be difficult, but I am saying that you’ve had a hard row to hoe in the last few years and maybe you could use a helping hand in getting that under control for your mom’s sake and to make the best start in college. I hope that you come back and let us know how you’re doing because I will be rooting for you.</p>

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<p>zoosermom, I’m truly sorry is this sounds impolite but I don’t think any parent or high school student (like me) on CC has the right to conclude the OP has some sort of anger management issues with his mother. As most parents have pointed out, fighting with parents is very normal. It’s also a bit wrong to automatically assume the OP is always to blame in the parent-child fights; parents aren’t perfect and sometimes they too make the mistake of misinterpreting their child’s actions or words as attitude (though I don’t know if it is the case, just a possibility).</p>

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<p>Absolutely parents make mistakes!! All the time. Children don’t come with instruction manuals, and parents are just doing the best they can. Often they screw up-- sometimes worse than kids. The thing to do is to acknowledge that everyone makes mistakes, and sit down and talk about it. You can’t dance around such loaded issues and hope they will go away. Words work!</p>

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<p>“zoosermom, I’m truly sorry is this sounds impolite but I don’t think any parent or high school student (like me) on CC has the right to conclude the OP has some sort of anger management issues with his mother”
I made very specific references that Galosien understands even if you don’t.</p>

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<p>Anger can be diffused pretty easily with humor. </p>

<p>There used to be a lot of yelling in my house when my ex husband lived here – he gets angry and starts screaming & then everyone is screaming back. Of course that was #1 on the list of reasons why we all breathed a huge sigh of relief when he moved out and even my then 7-year-old didn’t want him back. But the first rule imposed with the new order of a single person household was no more yelling.</p>

<p>Yeah, we had a few slipups, but most of the time annoyances have been dealt with by cracking jokes. I realize that if your mom doesn’t share your sense of humor, then jokes could be misinterpreted and cause even more hurt … so the best place to start is probably with self-deprecating humor. In other words, maybe if you could get her laughing at you rather than yelling at you life would be easier… </p>

<p>Obviously she loves you very much and is concerned about you. And yeah, I’d be worried too about a 3 mile walk home from the library in late evening or after dark. Some of these issues are problems that can be resolved with a cell phone and regular calls – that is, promise that you will call her right before you leave the library so she knows you are on the way – and if you stop along the way for any reason, call again so she doesn’t freak out.</p>